It is currently Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:11 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:21 pm
Posts: 518
Location: Central Illinois, USA
yaros wrote:
Yeah, I was looking at Tiled, but haven't read documentation yet. Can I create 16x16 metatiles out of 8x8 ones? I don't want to have too many duplicates in the CHR, even though memory is cheap now. Plus, who knows, maybe I can have something for the competition this year (my internal deadline to keep working).


Like na_th_an said, if you're doing 16x16 metatiles, you'd generally need some other tool to generate/organize the metatiles that you'd use in Tiled. In my project, I wrote a separate metatile editor program that lets me piece together metatiles, and specify game-related properties of them (attributes, collision information, etc). Then it exports a new png image of all the metatiles, which I use in tiled for editing maps.

That said, I have a similar problem to yours: I have some tilesets that I need to rearrange and compact. To do so, I would need to change the CHR image, AND my metatile definitions, as I move tiles around. But I won't need to change anything in my game maps, because they only care about metatile id's. So I'll probably be writing a custom script/tool this week that will let me move tiles in my tilesets, and it will update every metatile definition that uses those tiles.

_________________
My games: http://www.bitethechili.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 111
Location: Edmonton, Canada
gauauu wrote:
[
Like na_th_an said, if you're doing 16x16 metatiles, you'd generally need some other tool to generate/organize the metatiles that you'd use in Tiled. In my project, I wrote a separate metatile editor program that lets me piece together metatiles, and specify game-related properties of them (attributes, collision information, etc). Then it exports a new png image of all the metatiles, which I use in tiled for editing maps.


You are absolutely right. For now, just because of time constraints, and not wanting to stuck in one task, I use 8x8 tiles in default palette in Tiled and generate inc file with level ID, nametable and collision arrays (using objects) and fix my attributes manually in nesst. I don't have trouble with writting my own tools, but I want to get to the point where I can implement basic amount of features I'm planning and actually show what I have. If people like my idea, more or less, then I can suit up with more feature heavy dev tools :)

I was asking more to see if there is anything around. I tried MapEd Pro, but half of the labels are cut off, and it crashes too. Tiled does good enough, and XML file is easy to convert.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
Posts: 2131
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
If my map editor was more stable and not too specific to my project, I would have been more than happy to share it since it seems to do what you are looking for. What I do is I first create a "set" of meta tiles out of tile, select a palette for it then in the map I refer to that metatile group and draw with the selected meta tile. It was even possible to make meta tile out of metatile but I only tested map with that once.

For now, the best thing to do is wait for other people to finish their tool. I think this is something people are looking for, still looking to find a nice one myself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 111
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Banshaku wrote:
For now, the best thing to do is wait for other people to finish their tool. I think this is something people are looking for, still looking to find a nice one myself.


Considering what I'm building I would need a universal tool with custom properties anyway. Because I don't have scrolling, and my collisions do not depend on actual tiles (I use collision boxes independently of the map) and I don't have scrolling, I should just get away with compression, and some manual work. I aim for 5-15 maps for now for the prototype. If I decide pursuit further, I'll look around if anything is released or I either fork something like Tiled (or create plugin) or create the tool myself.

I don't really want to wait. I know my attention span, and if I stop I'd rather leave this forum as well. I was mostly asking what's around and what people do as of now. Thank you for the feedback though, it was valuable to me. No answer is still an answer.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
Posts: 2131
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Of course, if you need a tool now and it doesn't exist, the best way it to update one or find a compromise with an existing tool ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:53 am 
Offline
Formerly WheelInventor

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:55 am
Posts: 1786
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Kasumi wrote:

FrankenGraphics: What's an example of a failure case? It can choose a palette order that creates more than 256 tiles, when one exists that makes less, and it can choose something that does not let you animate palettes as intended. Do you mean something other than those?


Sorry, i can see my post got a bit conflated in its message. The problem i tried to pose was general, primarily, and in respects to my experiences with NESST secondarily. I-CHR definitely solves some of the problems i'm having with NESST in this regard if i take care to define a palette order for it to work with like you suggested here and elsewhere.

When importing a bmp/png to chr, the problem of the wrong palette order/bit plane assignment isn't too bad since you can easily use the built in menu actions to correct it. If trying to parse a map or screen as nametable data, however, NESST will almost always guess it wrong which requires me to do manual work - this is particularily true when more than one colour is shared between several palettes and the importer doesn't know which should be colour 0. Or else it might guess at an ineffective use of all four subpalettes wich may scramble bitplane arrangements in the resulting chr file (just as long as the nametable looks the part, the importer doesn't care). Sometimes i can have it guess right or a bit less wrong by doing things to the bitmap imported and then remove those edits afterwards, but i haven't figured it all out.

So basically, i avoid importing nametables from non-nes bitmaps into NESST if there's a leaner way.

_________________
http://www.frankengraphics.com - personal NES blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 9:40 am
Posts: 500
That's one of the reasons I built my conversion tools (the one being that I prefer things done actually and quietly - being a pixel artist myself I end up retouching graphics one thousand times and having to manually do the conversion and/or rearranging would be rather tedious): palette control. I constructed them so I must specify the exact palette indexes and order (in my case using a 16x1 pixels png image with the ordered palette entries for either BG or FG which matches the colours used in the image files themselves).

_________________
http://www.mojontwins.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group