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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Revenant wrote:
I'd like to advise not watching this video at work because the "background" is basically cropped Princess Peach hentai.


I try not to be a prude, but there's always been a really seedy, gross underside to the ROM hacking community that makes the whole thing look bad. If I ran RHDN, I'd kick all the "bad hacks" people out of the community. Let cartoon porn addicts, neo-nazis, and people who like mocking people with AIDS have their own site.

It's not just the heavy-handed moderation, I'd be embarrassed to be a part of that community today.

koitsu wrote:
probably because the people doing these hacks don't have the time, interest, or knowledge to create a completely brand new game. Game engines take crazy amounts of time and effort.


I've had to explain that dozens of times to people when it comes to the MSU1. "Why not just make a brand new game?" -- because this can be done in two hours instead of ten years.

I will say though, I think everyone starts on ROM hacking thinking it'll be less work and faster, but sometimes you end up with hacks like Pokemon Prism and you hit a kind of sunk cost fallacy effect. I can't really believe the eight years those developers spent hacking that game wouldn't have been better spent writing a new game from scratch like Uranium did.

However, I understand how they got themselves into that position. No one has a crystal ball.


Last edited by byuu on Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:46 pm 
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Espozo wrote:
Myask wrote:
It distracts the player from gameplay, creating a cognitive difficulty, and sex sells.

They should have also done FMV and had porn playing in the background.


Nice idea! If I knew more about SMW hacking and the MSU, I would definitely do that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:01 am 
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byuu wrote:
Revenant wrote:
I'd like to advise not watching this video at work because the "background" is basically cropped Princess Peach hentai.


I try not to be a prude, but there's always been a really seedy, gross underside to the ROM hacking community that makes the whole thing look bad. If I ran RHDN, I'd kick all the "bad hacks" people out of the community. Let cartoon porn addicts, neo-nazis, and people who like mocking people with AIDS have their own site.

It's not just the heavy-handed moderation, I'd be embarrassed to be a part of that community today.


I believe that's called Newgrounds. Once flash is no longer in the browser, I expect that site's entire game section to evaporate since everything would have to be downloaded to be played.

byuu wrote:
koitsu wrote:
probably because the people doing these hacks don't have the time, interest, or knowledge to create a completely brand new game. Game engines take crazy amounts of time and effort.


I've had to explain that dozens of times to people when it comes to the MSU1. "Why not just make a brand new game?" -- because this can be done in two hours instead of ten years.

I will say though, I think everyone starts on ROM hacking thinking it'll be less work and faster, but sometimes you end up with hacks like Pokemon Prism and you hit a kind of sunk cost fallacy effect. I can't really believe the eight years those developers spent hacking that game wouldn't have been better spent writing a new game from scratch like Uranium did.

However, I understand how they got themselves into that position. No one has a crystal ball.


There's two sides to this coin, A: Romhacks are a good way to demonstrate what you can do with -that- game engine that maybe wasn't thought of, and re-inventing the wheel takes time. It can be used to translate and fix bugs in existing games without going to the original developer. B: romhacks are a detriment to getting new game content, and invite lawsuits and even more piracy.

One thing that I find severely disappointing is when I see RePro's on eBay. Sure Super Mario RPG and Chrono Trigger's English version costs more than $100, but that is no excuse to buy a 8$ SFC JP version and burn a new maskrom and then resell it for $50. Like who are these people trying to fool? What is worse is that I've seen fan translations of games sold this way. I've seen Repro's at the local used game place (FF5? SNES cart? really?) and I didn't want to point it out since the person working there might not care.

Which goes back to reasons for doing romhacks. In the case of SMW hacks, there is now "Mario Maker" for the Wii U and you can record those on youtube and share the stages. If all you wanted to do was make mario levels, there you go. If you want to do more than that, then it's back to clever romhacks.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:10 am 
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I see nothing wrong with repros. Playing on the original hw is best, and for things like translated JP-only games it's either that, emulator, or flashcart, and for a casual player a flashcart may be too expensive.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:34 am 
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koitsu wrote:
ccovell wrote:
Spectacular. But why use precious time on hentai and hacks when they should be making original Mode-7 showoff games?

If this question was posed seriously, then my serious answer would be: probably because the people doing these hacks don't have the time, interest, or knowledge to create a completely brand new game. Game engines take crazy amounts of time and effort
...
it's one of many reasons I don't do actual games, instead preferring reverse-engineering and improving/tweaking an existing thing.

Oh, I certainly understand this -- hacking / RE'ing can be done in dribs and drabs, and one still feels refreshed and excited, most of the time. Not so with large, single-goal programming projects.

But I was being 75% not serious, and Byuu rightly got to the gross crux of the matter. :]

(kinda also like when I hear an absolutely awesome Famicom chiptune composition, and there's a DPCM girl screeching on overtop of the whole song. Love the technical artistry, now get out of the house for once!!!)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:14 pm 
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byuu wrote:
I try not to be a prude, but there's always been a really seedy, gross underside to the ROM hacking community that makes the whole thing look bad. If I ran RHDN, I'd kick all the "bad hacks" people out of the community. Let cartoon porn addicts, neo-nazis, and people who like mocking people with AIDS have their own site.

It's not just the heavy-handed moderation, I'd be embarrassed to be a part of that community today.


Hi, bad hacker reporting in. These hacks have been a part of the scene since the earliest years, and believe it or not most people ive encountered in real life who even knew about rom hacking only knew about hacks like Pussy City Pimps and thought they were funny. The only people I ever hear complain about them are the people who think rom hacking should be taken 100% seriously, which is a total farce when you consider the inherent illegality of the hobby. It's all a joke, and calling us neo nazis is disingenuous at best. What I find more embarrassing to the scene is this delusion that rom hacking should be held in high esteem and any view that runs counter to this should be silenced.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:15 pm 
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calima wrote:
I see nothing wrong with repros. Playing on the original hw is best, and for things like translated JP-only games it's either that, emulator, or flashcart, and for a casual player a flashcart may be too expensive.


Selling Repro's on eBay is piracy. Period.

Seriously what is this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-pokemon- ... SwzaJX7dwZ

If you are going to play a translated JP game that only exists as a rom patch, either play it on a SD2SNES, or play it on SNES9X presumably with the physical ROM cart that you dumped yourself. If you make a repro of a commercial game and sell it on eBay, then you're engaging in fraud.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:46 pm 
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> Hi, bad hacker reporting in.

You're more than welcome to do anything you like. And in fact, you're welcome to do it at RHDN, too.

I'm just saying that if it were up to me, I wouldn't want my work to have anything at all to do with yours.

I don't want a fan translation I spent seven years refining showing up next to "Neo-Nazi Dr. Mario", especially when it comes to outside groups like journalists peering in to see what this whole "ROM hacking" thing is about.

You're entitled to feel just as much contempt for my own work and not want mine next to yours, or not. It's all personal opinions here. No matter what a person does, there will always be people out there that dislike them or their work. This is no exception: I don't care for "bad hacks" at all. There's really no reason for you to care about receiving my approval, of course.

> hacks like Pussy City Pimps and thought they were funny.

Lots of people enjoy toilet humor. Usually teenagers. But there's nothing wrong with teenagers having something they enjoy.

> calling us neo nazis is disingenuous at best.

When you make a game with anti-gay, pro-AIDS messages full of swastikas, Poe's Law comes into effect.

I am sure a lot of people are in this for the humor, others for the trolling, and others still because they actually believe what they're saying.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:19 am 
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byuu wrote:
I'm just saying that if it were up to me, I wouldn't want my work to have anything at all to do with yours.

I don't want a fan translation I spent seven years refining showing up next to "Neo-Nazi Dr. Mario", especially when it comes to outside groups like journalists peering in to see what this whole "ROM hacking" thing is about.


Too bad? This stuff has been around since the 90s, we are just taking it to its logical conclusion, trying to outdo each other and make people laugh. Your fan translation is as equally illegal and unmarketable as the raunchiest joke hack. If you are this concerned about what a journalist thinks of your illegal hobby, maybe find a less illegal hobby. Also we've already been approached by journalists and our community is mentioned in an MIT publication, so you're a little late on that one. Like it or not, people in the real world are more interested in the crazy stuff than Final Fantasy bug fixes.

byuu wrote:
You're entitled to feel just as much contempt for my own work and not want mine next to yours, or not. It's all personal opinions here. No matter what a person does, there will always be people out there that dislike them or their work. This is no exception: I don't care for "bad hacks" at all. There's really no reason for you to care about receiving my approval, of course.


We never needed anyone's approval (if we did, you think these are the hacks we would make?). I'm calling you out on the absurdity of stating that our illegal works are sullying the "good name" of your illegal works.

byuu wrote:
Lots of people enjoy toilet humor. Usually teenagers. But there's nothing wrong with teenagers having something they enjoy.


Plenty of adults enjoy rude humor. You seem to be patting yourself a little too hard on the back for not being one of them.

byuu wrote:
When you make a game with anti-gay, pro-AIDS messages full of swastikas, Poe's Law comes into effect.


Yes I'm sure Hitler would have been very pleased with being depicted as a walking penis. If that's the kind of thing you see and go "hmm yes this is clearly done in earnest" then I don't even know what more to say.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:41 pm 
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> I'm calling you out on the absurdity of stating that our illegal works are sullying the "good name" of your illegal works.

Like I said, you have your opinions, I have mine. Art is not objective.

> Plenty of adults enjoy rude humor.

The world is full of people of all intelligence levels. Some of us enjoy our adult humor with some nuance and depth. Others like to go, "hahahahah that's a penis." Everyone deserves entertainment they can understand, I suppose.

> I don't even know what more to say.

Run with that. There's no reason to continue this conversation.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:58 pm 
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If you're going to side-step your own argument by playing the "that's like, your opinion, man" card and resorting to ad hominem attacks, then I suppose there isn't any point to continuing. I accept your concession.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:19 pm 
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Sverker wrote:
ad hominem attacks

Uh, where? :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:40 pm 
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The clichéd implication that my sense of humor correlates with my intelligence. I responded to his argument with clear points and his response boils down to "oh yeah, well you're stupid"


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