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Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:01 pm
by byemu
I want to have a snes sdk,support c language is better,
I use "pvsneslib", but I find many bug and limit,

So is there a better snes sdk I can use?
Need help.

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:46 pm
by dougeff
I do too.

I suggest learning ASM.

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:33 am
by calima
Indeed, it doesn't exist. There is no acceptable C compiler for SNES, and pvsneslib is pretty much the only platform library.

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:29 pm
by Yamilquery
I want to develop video games for snes, but when reading your comment I think twice, what kind of limits and errors does the PVSnesLib library have?

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:00 pm
by dougeff
PVSnesLib appears to be (I don't know anything, but from 10 minutes of looking at github)...

816-tcc c compiler, combined with wla assembler, some graphics converters, a brr converter, impulse tracker etc etc.

But the PVSnesLib itself looks like it might be very good. But, poorly documented... so, it would take me months just to get "hello world" going. Possibly.

I'd say it's worth looking into, but a bit complex.


Quote from documentation...
"* to do *"
Last modified: 2012/05/26


It looks like Kung Fu Kirby helped debug the code. Maybe he knows how it works.

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:25 am
by calima
Yesterday I was bored and read up on if I could get an EU grant to port LLVM there. Surprisingly, it would have good chances of passing, but the bureucracy required is too much to bother.

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:55 pm
by Memblers
I'm curious if anyone has compared 816-tcc to CC65 in 6502 mode? Obviously, native would be better. But how much better, and if you write the busiest parts in assembly, is it still enough to matter?

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:53 pm
by calima
816-tcc's performance is irrelevant as long as it has serious codegen and crashing bugs. It generates plain wrong code for some very simple cases, and it crashes in multiple places, for example when using macros.

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:25 am
by HihiDanni
Pvsneslib was the first thing I toyed with when I was getting into homebrew. The library's API was lacking in places and I wasn't super impressed with tcc. Well, I was impressed in that "hey, I can write C code and get results on-screen quickly". I was less impressed with the performance and that tcc didn't support short circuiting in if statements, which is kind of a core behavior that I would have expected to be there, and would have improved performance anyway.

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:08 pm
by Memblers
calima wrote:816-tcc's performance is irrelevant as long as it has serious codegen and crashing bugs. It generates plain wrong code for some very simple cases, and it crashes in multiple places, for example when using macros.
Yikes, I didn't know that. I'm not actively doing any SNES stuff now, but might return to it eventually. So I'm bringing all questions and no answers to this thread, and here is another one.

Has anyone tried WDC's compiler? http://wdc65xx.com/WDCTools Seeing discussion (on 6502.org mostly) of it over recent years, it was $400, then it was $40, then it was unavailable, and now it's apparently free for legit WDC chips (which the SNES CPU is!). I was able to download it just now, the installer is dated 6-30-2017. The compiler, assembler, and linker EXEs are dated 2006. I've seen some references to there being a trial version with limits, but if this a trial version, it doesn't say anything about it (that I've found yet). I didn't actually try to build anything with it. It might be worth taking a look at.

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:38 am
by Zonomi
calima wrote:Yesterday I was bored and read up on if I could get an EU grant to port LLVM there. Surprisingly, it would have good chances of passing, but the bureucracy required is too much to bother.
There has been some experiments around LLVM and (S)NES.

Re: Need a better snes sdk

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:50 pm
by HihiDanni
Hmm, not sure I'd trust anything that involves WLA as an implementation detail, at least not until its 65816 support receives some bugfixes.