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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:03 pm 
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At snesmusic.org it says wario's woods is undumpable but they dumped arley's Humongous Adventure and I tried to d it Zsnes but no such luck What's the deal? I've been tryig to find a Spc soundtrack for Wario's Woods and recieve the first note being held.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:12 pm 
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"Undumpable" could mean that the game engine plays each note of the song as if it were a sound effect, as opposed to letting the SPC700 interpret some sort of tracked format. I seem to remember Mario Paint and some homebrew NSF or SID player doing this.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:26 pm 
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This is an unusual problem maybe I'll work on creating an Ips file that tricks the game into thinking music coding is normal as opposed other games. Now
I know the problem thus making it easier to do.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:56 pm 
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Quote:
Now
I know the problem thus making it easier to do.


No, now you know the problem thus you can see that it's unsolvable without a lot of work of either A) logging all note commands sent to the SPC-700 (like in the VGM music format), or B) adding a 65816 emulator to an SPC player. A is much preferable, but given that the game's soundtrack can easily be stored in a music format called "mp3", there's little reason to bother implementing it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:59 pm 
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anythings worth getting an spc set out of this game.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:55 am 
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I'd go with incorporating a 65816 emultator, because it is the "proper" way to do that, and that allow to play infinite song, and all.
Tough, noone would do that because 99% of SNES games doesn't need that to fully rip music and sound effects into the SPC format.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:34 am 
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A proper SNES music format would include 65816. It's just dumb to have 100 SPC files for one game, that are all 64kB that often might have just a few bytes different in each file. Noone will support that format though, because SPCs are already around and it takes some effort to rip game music. Same thing with SMS and Genesis music.

Might as well rip Wario's Woods music into an .SMC file.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:33 am 
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blargg wrote:
No, now you know the problem thus you can see that it's unsolvable without a lot of work of either A) logging all note commands sent to the SPC-700 (like in the VGM music format), or B) adding a 65816 emulator to an SPC player.

B) isn't too hard, given that PSF and USF players have to do something similar. Do we need a "Super NSF" format similar to NSF but using Super NES hardware instead?

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A is much preferable, but given that the game's soundtrack can easily be stored in a music format called "mp3", there's little reason to bother implementing it.

MP3 is patented; let's say "Vorbis". Infinite play is no problem, as it supports Ogg tags that could be used to represent the loop starting point. But when you record a Vorbis soundtrack from a game during gameplay, you also record sound effects, or you mute out channels that are "bumped" by higher-priority sound effects. In addition, Vorbis can't be easily tempo-scaled like SPC can, nor does Vorbis efficiently support muting individual channels. In addition, SPC is a heck of a lot smaller than Vorbis. Given the way the SPC700 and its DSP work, I'd recommend a variant of A) that involves finding better ways to convert to tracked formats (e.g. XM or IT) which preserve most of the advantages of SPC and add editability.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:43 am 
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The variant A would just track all commands done to the SPC from the 65815, and not effectivly emultating the 65815. So the data would just be a bunch of command that will tell the SPC to play notes. Usual SPC files already are in a state where the command to play the music has started.
In some very basic game music engines, all SPC will be the same with only some pointers different (same samples, same code, same music data, same SFX data, etc...). More advanced sound engines will just share the same code between songs, but swap all music data and samples.
Maybe a new format in the same fashtion than psf/minipsf and gsf/minigsf should be created. We could do minspcs for simpler game engines.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:49 pm 
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A proper SNES music format would include 65816. It's just dumb to have 100 SPC files for one game, that are all 64kB that often might have just a few bytes different in each file. Noone will support that format though, because SPCs are already around and it takes some effort to rip game music.


RAR removes the redundancy decently already. I proposed a similar non-proprietary compressor of mine a while back but discussion never became productive. Considering that this would only affect a few currently-unrippable soundtracks, it's not at all worth the effort to implement in the player and to then rip every soundtrack again, this time with a disassembler and lots of time. Most current soundtracks can't be improved on, since the SPC-700 runs independently; if you added the 65816 code, it'd be doing nothing. For other formats like PSF (I think), there is no option but to emulate the main CPU. There is always a "super-SPC" player available, anyway: a SNES emulator.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:07 pm 
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blargg wrote:
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There is always a "super-SPC" player available, anyway: a SNES emulator.



Theres also A program I heard about that converts A spc to use on A real Snes It's Dos based and It's called Spc2rom. The rom is in Smc formatt at first.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:10 pm 
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blargg wrote:
RAR removes the redundancy decently already.

True, RAR (proprietary) and 7-Zip (free) can produce solid archives, but to play one song, you need to unzip the whole file.

Quote:
There is always a "super-SPC" player available, anyway: a SNES emulator.

But can it be made into a Winamp plug-in? And can a custom controller pass in a track number?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:18 am 
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tepples wrote:
True, RAR (proprietary) and 7-Zip (free) can produce solid archives, but to play one song, you need to unzip the whole file.


Or use a player with RAR/7-zip support. The compression scheme I implemented uses one file for each track, with a separate file of common data (similar to the minipsf format I hear).


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:07 am 
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blargg wrote:
tepples wrote:
to play one song, you need to unzip the whole file.

Or use a player with RAR/7-zip support.

But then the player has to unzip the whole file to play one song. A mini/lib setup would have to decompress only two.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:10 pm 
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But then the player has to unzip the whole file to play one song.


Actually, for a solid RAR (don't know about 7-zip), on average only half the files need to be decompressed. Plus the player can keep the RAR open (bye bye 40MB RAM) to make accesses of the next track much faster. Game Music Box for Mac OS does this optimization (unless you bring another program in front, then it re-opens the RAR when you switch tracks).


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