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 Post subject: Re: 65816 C compilers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:17 am 
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Drew Sebastino wrote:
This project really just has me thinking about the possibility of developing a sort of old "8-bit" computer style kernel for an SNES flash cart... Not having a keyboard is a bit of a problem though...

The real problem isn't the lack of a keyboard -- because there was one -- the real problem is collector hoarders.


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 Post subject: Re: 65816 C compilers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:01 pm 
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just put a PS/2 port on the cart. Or use the existing USB port...

He seems to actually wants to run the 65816 in 6502 mode its an "8bit" machine.. I think he is going for 65816 because he basically wants to make a "new commodore" and that means 6502. The other problems is making a machine around avr is not practical, Z80 sucks.. umm 8088 are not made anymore... 6809 nope... oh look 65816 sweet and they come with a bunch of built in stuff which makes it handy. Interestingly Mensch is in the group.
The Phoniex256 projected started out based upon his "this is what I want in a computer" but it started to get to big so he come to make a smaller one. However with the numbers his group has, I imagine making games for this new machine is probably going to have a larger market then NES games at this point. However everybody seems to be a power trip fantasy and if they will actually use the thing once its doesn't do everything that they want, like use a Z80 of all things.. Between this and say the Spectrum Next.. I think this has more potential, but depending upon the price the Mega65 could cannibalize it.


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 Post subject: Re: 65816 C compilers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:36 am 
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That's a very good analysis.

As you probably have read till your eyes fell out your sockets, my main concern is ease of portation between existing projects and that new platform. The reason it is my main concern is... because i don't feel the user base is as much a concern. That can still fail at the critical point but the interest this project has whipped up is unprecedented. And to make sure it doesn't fail at release, there needs to be some software going for it to show good early, if maybe a bit primitive examples of what it is capable of doing and spike continued interest in using it beyond the novel idea.

The phoenix seems nice but seems to have an interested user base of a dozen so far? Its dedicated forums are empty. And hardware speaking, i don't see why you'd want to cannibalize two SID chips in a stereo configuration? I don't know if it's hard-panned or not, but for game score composition it should be more versatile to have either mono or just a very subtle stereo field.

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 Post subject: Re: 65816 C compilers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:38 am 
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your posts make a refreshing change to read, they contain logic, examples, and not a link to something else..


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 Post subject: Re: 65816 C compilers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:48 am 
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I feel that the groundswell and "marketing power" of Dave can't not be dismissed, however I do have concerns that most people will fall off once its "doesn't do the one thing they want". Everybody is excited because they have always dreamed of making one, and this is as close as they can get.
Once people actually read the FAQ and find out its not open source, open hardware and they can't tinker with KERNAL to make their super special custom version 10,004th version of the KERNAL that boots with their name at the top, then that might put the "OSS" brigade off.

However I don't think the market is large enough to support this one, 256Phoniex, Mega65 and Spectrum Next.


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 Post subject: Re: 65816 C compilers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:06 am 
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Yeah... I mean I kinda get his whole shtick, but it doesn't really add up to me. It won't be more accessible than a real 8-bit unless a *ton* of documentation/tools gets made for it. It won't be more available than a real 8-bit unless they sell millions of them. It's not going to be more recognizable *ever*. "I made a game for the 8-bit guy computer!" -> "Huh?" Outside of his fan base, it will be nothing more than a curiosity. Our local gamedev community just had a play party for the Global Game Jam games made last month, and I overheard comments such as "Hey did you try that NES game?", and "Someone made an actual NES game." It was a mediocre 48 hour jam game to be sure, but running on the NES people thought it was neat. Had I made it for the 8-bit dream computer, I can't imagine a similar reaction. My point being I don't think people outside of his community will "get it", and I think communal nostalgia like that is a non-trivial part of the allure of retro dev.

That said I'll probably buy one, make a small project for it, then put it in a box with my Gameduino 1 and 2. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 65816 C compilers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:34 am 
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The way i can see this gaining a bit of cult traction on its own outide the youtube community is if beople began having computer clubs and meetups, just like for example modular synth and garden enthusiasts do. There's apparently still an abc80/800 computer club active in sweden. These computers had a really small cult following local to scandinavia. In the 80s they would broadcast software like BBC did for the BBC micro. Nowadays i think it's mostly just a mail list and maybe a yearly meetup over a cup of coffee, but anyway.

Slembcke, if you're considering writing something for it at one point, i might want to make graphics for it. Just to have something done for it at the very least. Feel free to write me a line when/if!

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 Post subject: Re: 65816 C compilers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:33 pm 
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I always wanted to build my "own" one but now that I have limited time, it make more sense to work on existing platform that I never had the chance to try first then building or working on a new one since there is more chance to be more information about that platform in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: 65816 C compilers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:24 pm 
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The thing is though, the Spectrum Next solves an "issue", in that the Spectrum user will finally be able to say their machine is better than a C64.
The phoniex256 solves the issues we have with the 128.
The Mega65 hits the super sweet spot of unobtainium that is the C65.
these all hit a certain point of wish fulfillment.

This is "I'm a noob, and there is a community and I can probably handle doing something in BASIC and not having it be 100% crap", which the Spectrum Next, Phoniex256 and Mega65 will also all do. Bil Herd is a going to be a factor though, he will never bless the Mega65. I think he has waived his hands over the Phoenix256 and giving it his blessing but he is also on the Commander-16 "list of people". I think there is a FOMO aspect, people talk about the "good old days" and how we can all do this "amazing" stuff thanks to it, but some people even though they had the machines were never smart enough to work it out, and now that they are older they might be able to.

Does anybody know of Raspberry Pi native games, a game you can put on an SD card and boot? I've not heard of it, there are millions of them, and yet. I think the Commander-16 is going to be a Raspberry Pi of 8bits, people want to tinker with it, play with it for a few hours, make it their own in some capacity, give it their own case etc


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 Post subject: Re: 65816 C compilers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:11 am 
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This thread should probably be moved to General Stuff (and renamed too, for that matter).


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