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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:56 am 
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I have screenshot previews under the state manager, but it's probably not as convenient as hitting one key and seeing pictures of every single state at the same time.

It does work on macOS too, but I found an issue with naming the managed states, which I'll fix soon.

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:04 am 
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byuu wrote:
I have screenshot previews under the state manager, but it's probably not as convenient as hitting one key and seeing pictures of every single state at the same time.

Image


That's correct byuu, to be honest I'm not using that feature in Bsnes either because it just feels different from the Snes9X implementation, in Bsnes I'm just using the normal quick saves to save the games. If you manage to implement the save states with the eye-candy GUI like the picture I provided above then I would definitely use it and plenty of people may start to find it interesting and will finally accept these type of features because Bsnes is popular so it has the potential of changing people's mind about features like these and make them realize that the feature is actually pretty darn good.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:50 am 
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xZabuzax wrote:
Any opinions on this matter?


I'd say it's worse from a functionality standpoint. Screenshots are much taller than text, so you can't show as many states this way. They also aren't very telling of progress. In an RPG or Metroidvania where you're constantly revisiting old areas, why would a screenshot tell you progress? In Mega Man, the order in which you do bosses is up to you, so again, imagery tells you nothing. What if you're on the pause screen or you saved during a fade? I think it's fine that byuu added them, but I doubt I would've bothered. You need to describe your saves and look at the dates if you want the use the slow method, it's the only reliable way to remember.

And just to recap why there is a slow method, there are mainly three ways to use savestates

1. In short, fast-paced games like Gradius where you're at risk of dying every 5 seconds. Hotkeys are best here.
2. Deliberately as an alternative to Passwords. Top Gear 3000, Mega Man, Rock N Roll Racing, etc.
3. Deliberately in place of SRAM. Usually an RPG like FF6 that has only a few SRAM slots. If you use hotkeys all the time, you risk losing progress.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:12 am 
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nocash wrote:
Are that really screenshots, or are the pictures rendered on the fly from the savestate data?
Screenshots would be a bit lame.

I think using a screenshot is really the only way to get it frame accurate. If you pause the the emulation and save state, you would need to save the state from one frame ago to generate the same image that is currently on the screen. Otherwise, generating the image from the current state would look one frame into the future. At least for TASers who are playing a game one frame at a time, or just people doing frame advance to do a frame perfect effect in general, that might be confusing...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:32 pm 
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FitzRoy wrote:

I'd say it's worse from a functionality standpoint. Screenshots are much taller than text, so you can't show as many states this way. They also aren't very telling of progress. In an RPG or Metroidvania where you're constantly revisiting old areas, why would a screenshot tell you progress? In Mega Man, the order in which you do bosses is up to you, so again, imagery tells you nothing. What if you're on the pause screen or you saved during a fade? I think it's fine that byuu added them, but I doubt I would've bothered. You need to describe your saves and look at the dates if you want the use the slow method, it's the only reliable way to remember.

And just to recap why there is a slow method, there are mainly three ways to use savestates

1. In short, fast-paced games like Gradius where you're at risk of dying every 5 seconds. Hotkeys are best here.
2. Deliberately as an alternative to Passwords. Top Gear 3000, Mega Man, Rock N Roll Racing, etc.
3. Deliberately in place of SRAM. Usually an RPG like FF6 that has only a few SRAM slots. If you use hotkeys all the time, you risk losing progress.


Is good that you made a negative point against the feature, it's understandable and it makes sense, but I can also make a positive point for the feature that also makes sense.

Note: I will just copy/paste a comment from another person in the Reddit thread I made for the positive point so I don't have to repeat the same argument:

Quote:
Compare from the standpoint of how useful it is to the end-user, the following:

A
Save State 0
Save State 1
Save State 9

B
Slot 0 : 08/08/2019 12:50
Slot 1 : 07/07/2019 03:20
Slot 9 : 06/06/2019 18:30

C
Slot 0 : 08/08/2019 12:50 + Screenshot of boss 7 door
Slot 1 : 07/07/2019 03:20 + Screenshot of world map near town 5
Slot 9 : 06/06/2019 18:30 + Screenshot of final boss on a cheat code run

Two force the user to try all of the save states to tell them apart, one doesn't.


There's more plus than cons with this feature IMHO.

And for this part:
FitzRoy wrote:
They also aren't very telling of progress.

Well the same could be said with the quick saves in an emulator, they aren't very telling of your progress either but at least with a picture you get an idea of where you are and it also avoids issues like Ghandi already explained in this thread. And if you really want to see comments with this feature then nothing is stopping a developer from adding an option to display comments on those pictures, for example, a picture could have a "symbol" on it telling you that it have comments on it so you could highlight that picture with the mouse to see the comments. I don't know, use your imagination.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:37 pm 
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xZabuzax wrote:
Well the same could be said with the quick saves in an emulator, they aren't very telling of your progress either


Read my post harder. Quicksaves wouldn't be quick if you had to pause the game and look at images. It's a different kind of saving for a certain kind of game.

For slow saving, descriptions and dates are better than images. Images are unreliable and take up too much space to be used as a show-all list.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:14 pm 
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FitzRoy wrote:
Read my post harder. Quicksaves wouldn't be quick if you had to pause the game and look at images. It's a different kind of saving for a certain kind of game.


I already did and like I already said, quick saves also has their up and downs so is not perfect either. With quick saves you also have to scroll through different saves to be able to tell them apart like the example I provided above and that could easily be resolved with pictures, is not like the users will only play games like Gradius or Megaman, there are regular users that wants to save the games in a fast and easy convenient way and be able to tell them apart as well.

The feature I'm requesting is sitting in the medium, is not as fast as quick saves but is not as slow as the slow saving method either, it's a balance between the 2 with the plus side to be able to tell them apart.

FitzRoy wrote:
For slow saving, descriptions and dates are better than images. Images are unreliable and take up too much space to be used as a show-all list.


This can also be achieved with the feature I'm requesting and we are in 2019, saying that images take up too much space is taking this out of proportion.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:27 pm 
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xZabuzax wrote:
quick saves you also have to scroll through different saves to be able to tell them apart


Why would you have that many to begin with, and why would you need to revisit them if you did? Quicksave, quickload when you die, repeat 100x, beat the game, the end.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:41 pm 
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FitzRoy wrote:

Why would you have that many to begin with, and why would you need to revisit them if you did? Quicksave, quickload when you die, repeat 100x, beat the game, the end.


And that's your point of view man, some users have a different point of view regarding this matter. There are users that likes to have a lot of save states and there are other's that doesn't. For the users that likes to have a lot of save states then you have a fast "balanced" method to browse your save states and be able to tell them apart easily with this feature which happens to be faster than the slow save state method. Plus, if there's more people using the same computer then they can also easily see your save states and avoid deleting/replacing your save state by mistake and you can also see which save state you wish to replace with the new one.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:17 pm 
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xZabuzax wrote:
And that's your point of view man, ...

Reminder: your original post:
xZabuzax wrote:
Any opinions on this matter?

Turning this into a debate will get you no where. Please stop treating it as one. You asked for opinions, you are getting them. Yours is just as valid as theirs.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:45 pm 
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koitsu wrote:
xZabuzax wrote:
And that's your point of view man, ...

Reminder: your original post:
xZabuzax wrote:
Any opinions on this matter?

Turning this into a debate will get you no where. Please stop treating it as one. You asked for opinions, you are getting them. Yours is just as valid as theirs.


Point taken, I apologize if I sounded rude.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:55 pm 
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hey, hi, ho, the lurker again here giving my 2 cents again

xZabuzax wrote:
it's a balance between the 2 with the plus side to be able to tell them apart.


agree and not only that, it also has another plus side, it looks way prettier than the other options

now if you excuse me, i'll continue my lurking activities. whoosh


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:01 pm 
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Hello, I'm a new member that only registered to support the idea of adding that interface in the save states.

I use windows but sometimes i go to my cousin's house to play some super nintendo in his macintosh with him, he also use snes9x and i was always jealous of that interface with the save states and i always wondered, why does it looks so pretty in his macintosh but in windows it looks so ugly?

I've tried a couple of emulators in windows and none of them has an interface as enchanting as the one from snes9x in macintosh in the saves states so i would love to see this type of interface in windows, that interface is very easy to use too!

I see that another lurker popped out just to support this idea as well, lol :mrgreen:


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