Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Discussion of hardware and software development for Super NES and Super Famicom.

Moderator: Moderators

Forum rules
  • For making cartridges of your Super NES games, see Reproduction.
User avatar
poorstudenthobbyist
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:20 pm

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by poorstudenthobbyist » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:01 am

Image
Check out my website for NES, SNES, and Genesis tutorials here. And visit my store for some custom tools and boards for making games here.

You can also follow me on Twitter for infrequent updates and bad jokes!

airhand_costanza
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:40 am

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by airhand_costanza » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:23 am

I'm admittedly a little disappointed in how this kickstarter turned out. I registered since I can't post on the comment section there without backing, and I was all ready to until I saw the actual campaign. Hopefully this can be taken as feedback going forward since I know the people behind it look at this topic. I'm sure this is going to come off as just complaining, but I think it's all valid if you're gonna ask for more than many people make in a year to work on this. I'll try to highlight in bold the main points in case it gets too long.

For one, unless you're desperate for someone to be making an SNES game maker, there's nothing in the kickstarter motivating me to back it. I get the node interface is different from the rest out there, but I want to see what it can actually do, meaning an actual game demo. A single picture of a UI which I can barely make out doesn't excite me. Am I understanding all these months went by and you can't even make anything with this yet? Because that was my only takeaway here. The "Develop Features" goal in the timeline beginning next month seems to confirm that. I was hoping to learn more in the video but it was just the same node image as well as shots of a graphics UI which really means nothing in terms of can it even make SNES games.

The basic idea I'm driving at here is I'm trusting the dev as a total stranger that they're perfectly capable of making a product that can make SNES games, and yet I'm seeing zero proof. All those hardware hacks and such as your background is cool and all, but where's my assurance this is going to actually make SNES games? Plenty of people out there who are self-proclaimed capable software programmers back off from the SNES due to how tough it is, so just knowing you're a software guy who hacked up old stuff isn't enough. If there's really no game maker at all yet so to speak, there's really nothing to sell in the description, and it shows. I have no reason to give money to this. Any successful Kickstarter needs to have a product of some sort, this seems like it's more selling the idea. The graphics editor is something a capable software dev can put together, but it represents nothing in terms of a program that can actually make SNES games. And it's a super nit picky thing to point out, but just from a marketing perspective I think showing very non-16bit looking graphics as an example in that interface don't help sell it at all, either.

Then the cartridge programmer. Why is this even listed as a feature? It's entirely separate from what I'd be intending to donate for to begin with, which is the actual thing that makes SNES games. People can just use an Everdrive as it is, the fact a cartridge programmer is even here just feels like unnecessary fluff so the campaign page isn't empty, and likely mimicking what the NESMaker guys did. I watched their project go through grief with their flashcart and still see people complaining about never receiving it. It just seems like an unnecessary thing at this stage when I'm not even seeing a program capable of making, well, anything, to even use such a thing for. Could have been saved for later down the line or as a separate thing, but bunching it together with this project makes it an obligation to go along with it now. I guess this also can maybe fall under being nit picky as well, but considering we have nothing else to work with, it arguably takes up more of the campaign than it should.

That about sums it up. I guess one last thing I want to point out, although it has zero to do with wanting to back it or not, is the name. I thought Retro Game Builder was maybe a temp name, but I guess not. It doesn't mention SNES at all and instead comes off as a general game making tool used to make retro style games. Even a riff of SNESMaker like SNES Builder would work better.

Anyway, if funding fails I hope the people behind it at least continue to work on it more and re-introduce it better than this, since right now it's essentially nothing that gets me excited.

User avatar
Nikku4211
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:28 pm
Location: Bronx, New York
Contact:

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by Nikku4211 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:22 am

airhand_costanza wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:23 am
[Critique]
Dang. I'm going to have to agree with you as well. As much as I wanted this to happen, there's no progress, and if there's no progress right now, there's no guarantee there'll be any more. It's like making a Kickstarter for a cake when you haven't even gotten the eggs or milk yet.

Let's just hope that if the Kickstarter fails, the backers will get their money back rather than having yet another guy run away with our money.

I guess we'll have to continue painstakingly writing fragile boilerplate code and getting lost because our comments, though very detailed, still aren't detailed enough.
I have an ASD, so empathy is not natural for me. If I hurt you, I apologise.

calima
Posts: 1238
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:16 am

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by calima » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:59 am

poorstudenthobbyist, you may want to learn how kicktraq works before assuming it's a linear extrapolation.

User avatar
poorstudenthobbyist
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:20 pm

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by poorstudenthobbyist » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:10 pm

Obviously it's not linear because if it was, it'd have estimated like $200k. Just pointing out that it's only been up for three days, and even then, it still estimates it gets pretty close, within a few thousand. Way too early to just write it off. Using a few points of data and filling in the next 90% with trends from other Kickstarters with wide range of different trajectories doesn't yield an answer.
Check out my website for NES, SNES, and Genesis tutorials here. And visit my store for some custom tools and boards for making games here.

You can also follow me on Twitter for infrequent updates and bad jokes!

User avatar
NovaSquirrel
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:35 pm
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Contact:

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by NovaSquirrel » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:24 pm

When I gave this sort of thing a try I was able to have something mostly functional in a few months (alongside a full-time job), though that was with a simpler scope and with off-the-shelf tools. I'd probably expect something at least as far along as I had for an actual Kickstarter.

User avatar
retrogamebuilder
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 16, 2020 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by retrogamebuilder » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:35 pm

airhand_costanza,

Thank you for your honesty. I'm sorry to hear that you're disappointed with the Kickstarter. The "people behind" Retro Game Builder is mainly just me, Andy West, and I find this type of feedback extremely valuable.

You make several valid points. I haven't been able to make much progress in the past several months, and you can't create games with the tool yet. I've made several proofs-of-concept for various features to determine that the project is feasible, but I've been busy with other jobs and RGB development has suffered.

The difference going forward is that I currently have no other work aside from a few small side projects. If funding is successful, this becomes my full-time job. If not, I'll pick up another software contract and RGB, unfortunately, will have to be put on hold for a while.
I'm trusting the dev as a total stranger that they're perfectly capable of making a product that can make SNES games
That's true. By creating this campaign, I've made a promise to deliver the rewards, but if you're not fully comfortable then you shouldn't back it.
People can just use an Everdrive as it is, the fact a cartridge programmer is even here just feels like unnecessary fluff
There are a couple of reasons I chose to include this. One is that the RGB cartridges are far less expensive than an Everdrive. Also, the cart programmer is meant to integrate with the software and make the workflow of creating physical games even simpler. You can choose a reward level that doesn't include the hardware, but I understand your point.
I thought Retro Game Builder was maybe a temp name
I can't disagree with this; it's not a good name. I might see about changing it at some point.
Any successful Kickstarter needs to have a product of some sort, this seems like it's more selling the idea.
You're right, but I would point out that this is perfectly in line with Kickstarter's mission. From their about page: "Kickstarter campaigns make ideas into reality. It’s where creators share new visions for creative work with the communities that will come together to fund them." The idea comes first. The "product" comes later. I realize that not all campaigns work this way.

I know that this is a very ambitious project, and that I'm asking a lot from potential backers in terms of trust. I hope enough people are willing to make a pledge that I'll have a chance to fully develop this and try to make it great.

User avatar
Controllerhead
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:58 am
Location: $4016
Contact:

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by Controllerhead » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:08 pm

Dripping water hollows out stone, not through force but through persistence: old proverb. I keep telling myself this. It helps. Sometimes. Don't have negative thoughts: Remember your mantra! Good luck. Godspeed.
Image

User avatar
retrogamebuilder
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 16, 2020 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by retrogamebuilder » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:27 pm

Controllerhead wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:08 pm
Dripping water hollows out stone, not through force but through persistence: old proverb. I keep telling myself this. It helps. Sometimes. Don't have negative thoughts: Remember your mantra! Good luck. Godspeed.
Thanks for the positive message.

airhand_costanza
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:40 am

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by airhand_costanza » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:31 pm

Thanks for the reply retrogamebuilder. I'm still going to be tracking the project and do hope it comes to fruition. I'm not backing at the moment but I'm still a supporter for anything that wants to let us make SNES games, so I'm hoping for the best 8-)

User avatar
Controllerhead
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:58 am
Location: $4016
Contact:

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by Controllerhead » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:16 pm

retrogamebuilder wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:27 pm
Thanks for the positive message.
I hope you know what you're in for. You going open source?
Image

User avatar
Nikku4211
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:28 pm
Location: Bronx, New York
Contact:

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by Nikku4211 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:16 pm

Controllerhead wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:16 pm
retrogamebuilder wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:27 pm
Thanks for the positive message.
I hope you know what you're in for. You going open source?
If he did that, someone else could fork the program, make their own version, and then there'd be less of an incentive to fund his Kickstarter.
I have an ASD, so empathy is not natural for me. If I hurt you, I apologise.

calima
Posts: 1238
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:16 am

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by calima » Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:39 am

It was canceled. Andy West saw the writing on the wall too.

User avatar
nesrocks
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:40 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Contact:

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by nesrocks » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:25 am

calima wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:39 am
It was canceled. Andy West saw the writing on the wall too.
Why was it cancelled? (I don't know what the writing on the wall expression means)

edit: okay I found his announcement and I researched the expression (it means to foresee a bad outcome).

Announcement: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/an ... ts/3002378
https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios <- Follow me on twitter! Thanks!

User avatar
Nikku4211
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:28 pm
Location: Bronx, New York
Contact:

Re: Retro Game Builder (make your own snes games)

Post by Nikku4211 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:10 am

calima wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:39 am
It was canceled. Andy West saw the writing on the wall too.
Glad I never backed it. I wonder what would happen to the physical cash donated by some of the backers.
I have an ASD, so empathy is not natural for me. If I hurt you, I apologise.

Post Reply