[demo] SNES Sonic

Discussion of hardware and software development for Super NES and Super Famicom.

Moderator: Moderators

Forum rules
  • For making cartridges of your Super NES games, see Reproduction.
creaothceann
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:47 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by creaothceann » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:21 pm

Maxwelthuthu wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:28 am
I'm sorry, but why the heck are people suggesting a enhancement chip?
Right... if you want to "cut away all limitations" you could just as well use a Pentium P5 / Pentium Pro on a custom PCB.
My current setup:
Super Famicom ("2/1/3" SNS-CPU-GPM-02) → SCART → OSSC → StarTech USB3HDCAP → AmaRecTV 3.10

psycopathicteen
Posts: 2943
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 6:12 pm

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by psycopathicteen » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:26 am

I eventually want to make a homebrew game that utilizes the SA-1 chip, but I will have to use it creatively, and not just preventing slowdown.

User avatar
Nikku4211
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:28 pm
Location: Bronx, New York
Contact:

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by Nikku4211 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:43 am

psycopathicteen wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:26 am
I eventually want to make a homebrew game that utilizes the SA-1 chip, but I will have to use it creatively, and not just preventing slowdown.
That's cool and all, but I think this game should have its own thread.
I have an ASD, so empathy is not natural for me. If I hurt you, I apologise.

tepples
Posts: 22049
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Contact:

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by tepples » Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:10 am

I'd almost suggest redrawing the graphics to 3/4 of their width.

Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic CD built the level out of 256x256-pixel metatiles, nearly the size of a screen. Sonic 2, Sonic 3, and Sonic & Knuckles built the level out of smaller 128x128-pixel metatiles, which slightly changed the rhythm of the level design. Sonic Advance series used level designs presumably intended for a 320x224 screen on the GBA's 240x160 screen. It did so while keeping the rhythm of S3&K by using 96x96-pixel metatiles instead of the 128x128. Where 2.5 by 1.75 metatiles fit on the Genesis screen, 2.5 by 1.67 fit on the GBA screen: almost identical. Using 96x128-pixel metatiles on the Super NES would result in 2.67 by 1.75 metatiles: very close to the Genesis screen.

The other option is what the Game Gear versions of Sega Master System Sonic games do: they center the camera in front of the hero. The SMS and Genesis games keep Sonic roughly horizontally centered, while the Game Gear version adapts the 256x192 of the SMS to the GG's 160x144 by keeping the camera roughly one-fourth of a screen in front of Sonic's facing direction. This somewhat reduces leaps of faith, but not perfectly seeing as the boss of the first zone of Sonic 2 for GG is unreasonably hard for such an early level. Other Super NES games, such as Pinocchio and Yoshi's Island, also do this sort of off-center framing, as do numerous Game Boy games.

93143
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by 93143 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:30 am

tepples wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:10 am
I'd almost suggest redrawing the graphics to 3/4 of their width.
That goes well with Señor Ventura's 512x224 suggestion earlier in the thread. At the time, I suggested going to 3/2-width for BG tiles to make the conversion easier (and more likely to fit in VRAM) than with the more technically correct 8/5, and I suppose 3/4 for sprites would match up properly with that, although 4/5 would be more correct with respect to screen size. In any case, squishing the sprites should make it easier to support dynamic animation...

I suppose it's a matter of what you want to sacrifice - foreground resolution (with normal Mode 1), or a real 4bpp backdrop layer rather than a 2bpp layer that needs a bunch of hacky fiddling to look mostly correct (with either Mode 5 or pseudo-hires in Mode 1). That's assuming the scaling process is both possible within VRAM constraints and of similar difficulty in both cases...

It seems to me that certain things (grass, the checkerboard pattern) don't strictly need to be scaled properly for aspect ratio. As long as the physics and level map, and larger objects like the trees, are scaled properly, the level graphics could be built largely out of tiles that don't result in the exactly correct number of brown squares or blades of grass across the width of a particular geological feature.

I'm still thinking about the hi-res grass issue with those collapsing cliffs... I think it's possible to use BG tiles just for the stuff that absolutely needs to be hi-res (basically just the surface grass), and rewrite those few tiles (and the tilemap) from ROM every frame as the pieces fall. Internal high resolution in solid tiles could be faked by taking advantage of the larger palette and using anti-aliased downsampled graphics. I've almost given up on tricking the PPU into rendering high-resolution sprite edges (at least without condemning the entire backdrop to use column blending at all times)...

User avatar
Señor Ventura
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:58 am

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by Señor Ventura » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:55 am

10 differences between the two both versions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDavVuWsodc

User avatar
TOUKO
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:14 am

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by TOUKO » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:53 am

This channel is a purge,i don't know if i should laugh or cry each times i see a comparison on it :?
Last edited by TOUKO on Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
tokumaru
Posts: 11858
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by tokumaru » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:01 am

You shut up! How dare you question The video? The "10st difference" says everything! :roll:

User avatar
Señor Ventura
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:58 am

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by Señor Ventura » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:23 am

Well, it seemed curious to me, but is clear that is a nonsense... we are talking about a game and a beta of a simple demo, and actually the snes version has been improved.

User avatar
TOUKO
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:14 am

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by TOUKO » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:29 am

tokumaru wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:01 am
You shut up! How dare you question The video? The "10st difference" says everything! :roll:
i believe in the blast processing .. :mrgreen:
Well, it seemed curious to me, but is clear that is a nonsense... we are talking about a game and a beta of a simple demo, and actually the snes version has been improved.
That's why this vidéo is a non sense .

psycopathicteen
Posts: 2943
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 6:12 pm

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by psycopathicteen » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:48 am

Señor Ventura wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:55 am
10 differences between the two both versions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDavVuWsodc
What kind of overclocked bullshit emulator are they using where the original game DOESN'T lag with 32 rings + swinging platform + spikes? Even if the guy pulls this off on the SNES, the people making the video would just edit slowdown into the video anyway.

User avatar
Señor Ventura
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:58 am

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by Señor Ventura » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:57 am

psycopathicteen wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:48 am
Señor Ventura wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:55 am
10 differences between the two both versions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDavVuWsodc
What kind of overclocked bullshit emulator are they using where the original game DOESN'T lag with 32 rings + swinging platform + spikes?
I didn't realize about this... it's true, sonic has a lot of slowdowns in the original game in that moments, although it seems to be due an error in the source code, or something like that.

turboxray
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:56 am

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by turboxray » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:34 pm

Señor Ventura wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:57 am
although it seems to be due an error in the source code, or something like that.
Or potentially their destination code.

protomank
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:26 am

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by protomank » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:44 am

About this channel, it is from a fellow brazilian girl. And if you know a bit about videogame history here, the Sega Mega Drive (c'mon that is the real name) was a huge success and the video is cleary biased towards that console, so don't mind too much about that. When I watched the video before seeying the link here, I had the same toughs you guys, not a fair comparison, but still find it funny.

tepples
Posts: 22049
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Contact:

Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by tepples » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:02 am

Is there a burn-down list of things you want to fix before the next demo release?

Post Reply