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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:23 am
Posts: 1236
Location: Berlin, Germany
FitzRoy wrote:
First of all, anyone who works a few extra nights flipping burgers can afford a computer capable of running bsnes, and in ten years they'll be able to pick one off the curb capable of running bsnes. It means nothing today that Nesticle can get 60fps on a Pentium 166 and Nestopia can't, it is now a useless trait to be able to do that in exchange for more crashes, more bugs, more headaches. And the same thing happened to ZSNES, which is why they're rewriting almost the entire thing. And I still won't use it, because I still won't like the GUI, and I don't believe they will be willing to do what byuu had to do to get the kind of compatibility assurance he did.

I'd also point out that there is a dark side to savestates. They can become a dependency for people, and it's easy to accidentally overwrite days of progress. Sometimes when it happens, people will actually bother to register just to complain that it happened, as if we can somehow give them their life back.


I agree with every bloody word of that. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 21591
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
FitzRoy wrote:
First of all, anyone who works a few extra nights flipping burgers can afford a computer capable of running bsnes

Which handheld computer are you thinking of that can run bsnes? And what computer can somebody under employment age afford by saving birthday and Christmas money?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:23 pm
Posts: 1524
Quote:
I don't believe they will be willing to do what byuu had to do to get the kind of compatibility assurance he did.


True. I spoke with pagefault about the new S-CPU core ... he's not going to support bus-hold delays, it'll be a standard cycle-core like bsnes v0.016 and prior. Given, this is enough for 100% compatibility, as well as requiring only half the size for the opcode state machines*, and at least twice as fast. But you can't properly time S-CPU <> S-PPU <> S-SMP interactions. You can only partially fake them with time-shifting.
(* Having 12-20 state levels per opcode is just insane to try and maintain. And you have to do it that way for savestates. So I can totally see where pf is coming from, and I agree with his decision.)

But that's honestly not a bad thing. We need an emulator that compromises between speed and accuracy for modern platforms. We don't have one of those right now. They all focus too much on speed.

I just wish someone would work on a fast SNES emulator with no accuracy compromises, and without working on a legacy codebase. I'd happily join such a team, I just don't have the time to do it all alone.

Quote:
I'd also point out that there is a dark side to savestates. They can become a dependency for people, and it's easy to accidentally overwrite days of progress. Sometimes when it happens, people will actually bother to register just to complain that it happened, as if we can somehow give them their life back.


I completely agree. People don't understand that SRAM is part of the machine's state, and not restoring it creates more problems than it solves. A toggle is a tacky solution -- an end user can't know what games need it, except by trial and error. They also take away all challenge in games. But they are optional, so I can't use that as justification to not support them :(

Quote:
Which handheld computer are you thinking of that can run bsnes?


https://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/st ... ryId=16154

Or you could go the Acer route, probably something in the $400-$500 range there that's capable.

The VAIO TT series could probably work if you need a netbook (eg ~8" display), but it'd be pushing it; as well as your wallet. It could definitely handle the older PGO-enabled builds.

There are no options currently for cell phones, PDAs or the Wii. It should work on the PS3 at full speed, but I don't have the popularity of Snes9X, so nobody has tried yet.

Quote:
And what computer can somebody under employment age afford by saving birthday and Christmas money?


How about:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=742306
It's fairly easy to find an E2160 PC for $199, or upgrade in this case to the E4500 for $249. Both are fast enough with standard clocking, both can be overclocked by 30-50% with stock cooler.

If it's still to expensive, perhaps buy it used for half that price, or wait for Black Friday deals next month.

... or just use an emulator that's appropriate for your system specs.

I do agree that my speed and optimization level is terrible, but I really hate the people who complain about PC prices ... the E2160 is $50 new. Most people spend that much in a month on cable, or on a dinner for two. Cry me a river with your P166 goodwill donation story. These people hold back all emulators who worry too much about catering to them.

Use an older version of the emulator, or relegate backporting of new features to the same people that make console ports now, if you insist on using antique computers. Don't hold everyone else back to cater to you.

I know a lot of people use bsnes v0.017 still, because it's almost twice as fast, and only has ~5 known bugs.


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