Spam. Seriously. WTF.

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loopy
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Post by loopy » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:50 pm

blargg wrote:Between spam and jargon, I'm about ready to find a new NES development forum.
Co-signed.

tepples
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Post by tepples » Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:46 pm

BMF54123 wrote:Is this the kind of activation that sends new members an e-mail, in which they have to click a link or copy a code to activate their account? If so, how are spambots circumventing this?
Spambots check their e-mail, parse the response from phpBB, and follow the link.

Celius
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Post by Celius » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:24 pm

Is it possible to add more fields in the registration process? Because on another forum, they have fields in the registration process that they say specifically to not fill out because spambots always fill in some of them, thus significantly lowering the number of spammers.
loopy wrote:
blargg wrote:Between spam and jargon, I'm about ready to find a new NES development forum.
Co-signed.
Oh for god's sake, is it really THAT irritating? Just ignore it. There are plenty of people who are legitimately active on this site who talk about legitimate stuff. True, I get a little disappointed when I see that there is a new post only to find that it's trashy spam, but I really don't let it get to me. It's not like you're getting personally harassed or anything... That's just what I think.

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clueless
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Post by clueless » Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:04 pm

Too bad that this forum software doesn't (that I know of) have a "kill file". Does anyone here remember the good old days of "usenet death penalty"?

All of that aside... I see tepples point quite clearly. He's trying to mod the board using the rule of law, not mod rule. Jargon may be annoying (he reasons are mostly irrelevant), but has he broken an actual rule? Probably, but I haven't checked the fine print. Tepples has stated that he won't issue a "bill of attainder" [3] or take any action based on an 'expost facto law'. I don't know about the rest of the world, but those principles are fundamental part of our (USA) rights in our Constitution (Article 1, sections 9 & 10). People died in a war to give us those rights (I'm talking to you, UK.... Hi over there...)

Anyway... Just let the owner of the board modify the rules (ie, more clearly define 'being a dick' or 'asshattery' (to borrow a term from Loopy)), and then appropriately ban asshats AFTER the new rule goes into effect and AFTER said asshat engages in asshattery.

*ducks and runs*


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killfile

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_death_penalty (type #1, active :) )

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder

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BMF54123
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Post by BMF54123 » Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:48 pm

clueless wrote:All of that aside... I see tepples point quite clearly. He's trying to mod the board using the rule of law, not mod rule. Jargon may be annoying (he reasons are mostly irrelevant), but has he broken an actual rule? Probably, but I haven't checked the fine print. Tepples has stated that he won't issue a "bill of attainder" [3] or take any action based on an 'expost facto law'. I don't know about the rest of the world, but those principles are fundamental part of our (USA) rights in our Constitution (Article 1, sections 9 & 10). People died in a war to give us those rights (I'm talking to you, UK.... Hi over there...)
Democracy is great in real life, but it doesn't apply so well to messageboards. Or the Internet in general.

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loopy
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Post by loopy » Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:53 pm

I thought this was about spam? There's enough jargon threads elsewhere.
Celius wrote:Oh for god's sake, is it really THAT irritating? Just ignore it. There are plenty of people who are legitimately active on this site who talk about legitimate stuff. True, I get a little disappointed when I see that there is a new post only to find that it's trashy spam, but I really don't let it get to me. It's not like you're getting personally harassed or anything... That's just what I think.
I ignored it the first time. And the tenth time. And the hundredth. I could keep ignoring it forever. I can pretty much depend on spam appearing like clockwork now. Something would feel missing if we _didn't_ get our regular dose of spambots.

I'm not annoyed by spammers. I'm annoyed at moderators for letting an excellent board slowly get run down from prolonged negligence.
Last edited by loopy on Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Xkeeper
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Post by Xkeeper » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:04 pm

Well, I finally got a bit tired of it: NinDev.

And unlike here, there will actually be somebody paying attention to the place. (Hate to be a jerk, but seriously, it feels like nothing ever gets done here.)

I'm willing to do whatever it takes to accomodate the community here, though. The good news is that the other two forums I'm running off of this code have had no spambots whatsoever.

Oh, one nice plus over phpBBs: Threads don't all instantly mark themselves read if you leave the board for more than 15 minutes.

(Oh, right -- if you guys have any ideas for other forums, let me know so I can add them asap)

Celius
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Post by Celius » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:12 pm

Is starting this forum going to do more good than harm?

There might be people who stay here, when other people move over there. Thus the topics and the general understanding of the NES will be split between two forums.

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loopy
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Post by loopy » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:13 pm

I DON'T want to split up, but maybe this will get somebody's attention enough to fix things here.

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BMF54123
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Post by BMF54123 » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:18 pm

Celius wrote:Oh for god's sake, is it really THAT irritating? Just ignore it. There are plenty of people who are legitimately active on this site who talk about legitimate stuff. True, I get a little disappointed when I see that there is a new post only to find that it's trashy spam, but I really don't let it get to me. It's not like you're getting personally harassed or anything... That's just what I think.
So, if my next door neighbors were to start reciting sales pitches very loudly, at all hours of the day and night, distracting me from my everyday business, I should just ignore them because they're not personally harassing me?

I only have so much time I can spend on the Internet, and I'd rather not waste it clicking through a bunch of sales pitches (or, more often than not, random gibberish) in search of legitimate new posts.

Xkeeper
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Post by Xkeeper » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:19 pm

I don't necessarily want to split, but I think it would be in the best interest. Nothing here is getting done; the administrator shows up once in a great while, spambots are taking over the forum, the place is falling apart.

I also started it because I have a lot of experience in running forums (see Jul). Letting this shit happen is a great way to lose people, and having threads full of spam tends to cause some problems down the road with people who aren't following along.

In addition, if we set up an IRC channel, I could set up my bot to report all new replies to that channel; so, for example, when somebody makes a new thread about something, you can jump right on it and help them out as soon as possible instead of just sitting here refreshing every five minutes =P

I wouldn't have considered this at all if it wasn't for the (many) people in this thread complaining about all the problems here... and with a concerted effort, we can move everything to the other one all in one fell swoop without leaving anything behind.

Celius
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Post by Celius » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:32 pm

BMF54123 wrote: So, if my next door neighbors were to start reciting sales pitches very loudly, at all hours of the day and night, distracting me from my everyday business, I should just ignore them because they're not personally harassing me?

I only have so much time I can spend on the Internet, and I'd rather not waste it clicking through a bunch of sales pitches (or, more often than not, random gibberish) in search of legitimate new posts.
Okay, there's a major difference here. A. There aren't people spamming all day and night here. True, practically every day, but not all the time. B. If there's a spam post, scroll past it... Press the "back" button... There's all sorts of things you can do to not have the spam displayed on your screen. It's a lot easier to not see than to not hear. Though I do agree that the not personally harassing thing would be a lame excuse if your neighbors were shouting sales pitches.

But I'd rather have it so something is done about spam, but I'm not going to leave this board because of it. At least not at this low magnitude of spam.

Though if everyone/everything moves to another thread to reduce spam, I'd be perfectly happy.

Xkeeper
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Post by Xkeeper » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:40 pm

Celius wrote:Okay, there's a major difference here. A. There aren't people spamming all day and night here. True, practically every day, but not all the time.
Keep in mind that for most people, they only view the board for maybe a few minutes out of every day; stop by, see what's new, move on.

New spam once a day is enough to throw several "false positives", making it less likely anybody views new threads unless they see a familiar name on the "Last post in forum" column. After all, why open it if it's just spam?

Similarly:
B. If there's a spam post, scroll past it... Press the "back" button... There's all sorts of things you can do to not have the spam displayed on your screen.
That requires knowing where the spam posts are. Who's to say it's not some newbie? This is especially true where the only new post is in a thread -- who says it's not some newbie with a question or detail or something? You don't know it's spam until you view it -- and if turns out the only new post in that thread is spam, congratulations, you've just wasted time. That annoys people.

It's a lot easier to not see than to not hear. Though I do agree that the not personally harassing thing would be a lame excuse if your neighbors were shouting sales pitches.

But I'd rather have it so something is done about spam, but I'm not going to leave this board because of it. At least not at this low magnitude of spam.
Keep in mind the spam is not the only reason I made this. Look at the front page. It's deader than dead. There's no mention of the Wiki. The forum has only a passing mention. The last update was over three years ago. For all intents and purposes, somebody coming here would see it and think the site's been long dead!

On the other hand, while I know the site here is all but blank, I would be more than willing to set up a news system so people active in the nesdev community could post about things happening in the scene, such as new emulators, demos, documents, whatever -- so that there's an actual updated front page.

In other words, spam isn't the only reason. The whole site here is falling apart. I want to help fix this, but with none of the admins or anybody active, the only option I have is to make something new.

That's what I'm doing. If we all co-operate with this, we can all achieve something better -- that's all I'm saying.

Believe me, I didn't want to move either (it's more to deal with). It's just that this site is all but forgotten by the owners.

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Dwedit
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Post by Dwedit » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:55 pm

Who has SSH and FTP access to this account anyway? Is the guy AWOL?
There's really no point to having absentee admins without shell access.

Even though I am completely guilty of this myself. I "own" Fanimutation Wiki, and ended up handing off WikiSysOp access to Quietust, but only me and Mudi have SSH access.
Here come the fortune cookies! Here come the fortune cookies! They're wearing paper hats!

Celius
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Post by Celius » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:56 pm

Yeah, I've actually noticed that the front page has been dead since 2005. I agree it would be nice to see a front page that was constantly updated, maybe with people's demos uploaded so we wouldn't have to start new topics for all of our demos/games. I'm totally up for an improved front page, no matter how it comes about.

And you're right about the wasting time part that's annoying. Though you can usually tell if something's spam. If you see one spam post from a member, you can be sure that all posts by them are spam. I usually don't waste my time to view them all. But still, you have to initially waste time to make sure the member is a spammer, which sucks.

Oh, and the funny thing is, I was messing around with NESDev trying to figure out basic stuff for about 6 months. I was well aware of the front page, but I had no idea this forum existed until I randomly ran into it!

EDIT: Oh, by the way, to reduce the number of spammers here, it'd be great to ban anyone with this as their website:

www dot u4game dot com

I've seen several spammers with this as their personal website.

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