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 Post subject: Special pages are broken
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:08 pm 
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The wiki owner disabled new account registrations three weeks ago in preparation to investigate new measures against automated registrations "this weekend". He hasn't edited the wiki since. Did he forget about it?

When trying to investigate whether anyone still has the 'createaccount' privilege in order to create an account for a known good poster to the forum, I found that Special:Preferences and Special:Watchlist result in blank pages, and Special:ListGroupRights doesn't work on that version of MediaWiki.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:05 pm 
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Another user on this forum has already run into problems. I've sent an e-mail to the address associated with Atarimike's wiki account, but what should we do if that fails? Or should we start over yet again on a new domain with new rules?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:55 pm 
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If the current owner (Atarimike?) doesn't have time to maintain it, either we request a new admin to be elected and propose it to Atarimike or we have to create a new wiki.

If we do decide to create a new wiki, we should at least ask Atarimike if he doesn't mind about transferring the data, even asking him how does he feel about this since he must have put time from the beginning on it (just guessing, was not there when it was created). We should be diplomatic as much as we can since people invest their personal time on this and it kind of rude when someone tell you indirectly "we don't need you anymore" by moving things around.

My last comment on the subject is since the NesDev forum is on parodius, why is the wiki is on another site in the first place? Shouldn't it be on the same? That make more sense to me. Can we ask Koitsu if we could have a nesdev wiki on parodius and get an admin for this specific part? http://nesdev.com/wiki would make more sense to me then the current site.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:16 pm 
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There used to be a wiki at the URL you just linked. As I understand it, contributors just grew frustrated with the limitations of WikkiTikkiTavi, and it was easier to start MediaWiki on a new server.

As for moving the text, it might be better to reword everything. The nesdevwiki.org contributors never got around to specifying a license for the original text.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:33 pm 
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tepples wrote:
There used to be a wiki at the URL you just linked. As I understand it, contributors just grew frustrated with the limitations of WikkiTikkiTavi, and it was easier to start MediaWiki on a new server.


I see. I was not aware about that fact. It was easier to start it on a new server but it must still be possible to install it on parodius one I guess. If we could do that, that would be great.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:20 am 
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If whoever maintains/"owns" the wiki wants a separate account (which I'd recommend since I think Memblers has some personal stuff on his account, which is where the nesdev site resides), and/or want to migrate a domain name to us for hosting it, that's fine.

I can make http://nesdev.com/wiki/ point to that separate account, that way the main nesdev site and the wiki portion are maintained under two separate accounts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:18 am 
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If we're starting fresh with a well-defined license, it might be a good idea to also keep the current wiki available on a new server. This way there's not a rush to hastily rewrite content on the new Wiki; instead, it can be developed at a natural pace and with the goal of quality in mind.

If a new one is made from scratch, it would be really really nice if there were some planning beforehand.

- Reference material should be separate from programmer usage. So for example you'd have PPU reference pages that just cover what the registers do, and then "how-to" pages like the spiffy one Bregalad's been pimping lately. I also think electrical (hardware) information should be separate from software behavior reference. So you might have the 2A03's pinout and timing separate from the CPU and APU descriptions, also separate from CPU programming techniques and sound techniques. The point is to address different information needs in a focused way. Ones I can think of:

* building hardware - want electrical descriptions
* making an emulator - want behavior reference
* writing NES program - want how-tos when learning, then want behavior reference when some detail is forgotten
* general interest - want overview of architecture, then any of the above

- Pages should be fairly short. The main PPU page is a good example of the opposite of this, with way too much information crammed in one page.
- Common style templates should be decided on beforehand. Things like register descriptions should be in the same style on every page. Perhaps there's a way the Wiki can help us represent the information directly, and then have the Wiki automatically present it in an appropriate way. When working on the APU pages, I tried to use a register description style that was compact and clear, and not using some ugly text art (but we might prefer text; see next item).
- Consider making it easy to generate an text-only version of pages. I don't know about others, but I much prefer text files for referring to things, rather than web pages, as text editors are really fast and less clunky than a web browser. Doing this would rule out graphics and tables, though, unless there were a way to specify alternate text versions of such elements.
- Work out well-defined naming convention for the internal pages. Since the names are referenced in Wiki text, the names do matter to some extent. Do you name the page "APU", "NES_APU", etc.?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:45 am 
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Blargg beats me on this one (was going to write a message exactly about this). I totally agree with him. Before we start the wiki, lets define the structure of the site before hand to cover all common cases. It should be easy since it's not like the nes will "grow" with new features (except for peripheral like the powerpak which could have their own section).

Once properly defined and we decide some rules on the content (keep it short and simple), we should be able to rebuild it quite fast.

@Blargg: Regarding the style of the content, I'm sure there must be a way to apply some CSS to allow to switch from a graphical style to be more text friendly one. We should just check if the wiki software allow to do this. I tend to prefer some text document too.

@Koitsu: Great to see that we have the possibility. Thanks for the comment and support :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:39 am 
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<nowiki> </nowiki>?

_________________
Here come the fortune cookies! Here come the fortune cookies! They're wearing paper hats!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:35 am 
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Dwedit wrote:
<nowiki> </nowiki>?


But that would mean this specific paragraph would be without style at all. I would be interesting if you could apply different styles to the current content, like website that requires a different style when printing.

On another subject, once the new wiki structure is decided, we still need to decide who will be the admin of the site.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:56 am 
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just noticed this thread when i wanted to create a user account on the wiki

hope to see the new wiki started.. an area for "how tos" for basic stuff like proper nes initializations would be awesome


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:44 am 
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Reminder for those interested (Banshaku and others): just drop me a private note sometime on the forum about the account details and I'll do the necessary magic needed to get what was described.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:25 pm 
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If we want to make it go forward, we have to make some decisions soon.

Should we vote on who should be the admin or just suggest it in this thread? We need an administrator that can maintain a wiki.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:40 pm 
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The administrator of a wiki doesn't need to maintain the articles... any user can do that. in fact it's better if users adopt certain articles and make them "their baby" and work to improve them as much as possible. the wiki admin just needs to make sure everything is working, deal with technical issues, etc

I recommend adding information first and worrying about organization a little bit later. Waiting for organization to occur before information is added will just discourage people adding information. Organizing existing information is much easier than coming up with an all encompassing plan before hand. Obviously you can have some ideas in mind and directions you want to go, but I just mean "get the info out there" instead of dilly-dallying


I've got a fair amount of experience running MediaWiki wikis.. I currently have two running (http://3geez.wiki-tv.com/Main_Page , http://wiki.swiftlytilting.com/Main_Page ).. MW sites are really easy to set up and let anybody use. the current wiki would be fine if the admin would reopen the site

btw if you guys end up going with MediaWiki, I've developed a scripting language called 'Winter' which might be useful if the wiki ever gets to the advanced stages:

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Winter


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:08 pm 
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frantik wrote:
The administrator of a wiki doesn't need to maintain the articles... any user can do that.


I'm aware of that point. It just we will need someone that knows how to install and maintain the Wiki (good chances the media wiki one). But the "tricky" part is to find someone that have been there for a while on the board an is willing to do it. This is one factor that could be used to define "how trustworthy" the person could be. I know this single factor is quite shallow but it may be hard to define other ones (I have no idea at the moment). Because of that, I cannot even elect myself since I only been here since last year.

Since Tepples is a moderator and like to balance things, maybe we should ask him is opinion on how to select the admin.

frantik wrote:
I recommend adding information first and worrying about organization a little bit later. Waiting for organization to occur before information is added will just discourage people adding information.


The way I understand the previous wiki, this is how it was done and nothing moves and people seems to find it messy. It's hard to find what you're looking for. So to define everything is not possible of course but at least some guidelines for categories for grouping information would be nice.

I already like Blargs idea since it seems to divide the information based on the targeted users.You should focus the information for your audience. This will help to find what you're looking for. We could already start around his idea.

On the other hand, the front page of nesdev is not a good example since it's one big chunk of information. This is what happened on many pages of the wiki. We would like to avoid this.


frantik wrote:
I've got a fair amount of experience running MediaWiki wikis..

MW sites are really easy to set up and let anybody use.


By experience do you mean "using" the wiki or "installing it"? If you do have experience in the installation phase then it could help the future admin if he doesn't have any.

frantik wrote:
btw if you guys end up going with MediaWiki, I've developed a scripting language called 'Winter' which might be useful if the wiki ever gets to the advanced stages:


I'm always wary to add any external module since we never know how much impact in can have on the security on the site (sorry if it seems like an attack directed at you but it's not). So unless the user have a good knowledge of this extension we may try to keep it as plain vanilla as possible.

Thanks for the comments, always appreciated :wink:


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