Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

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ccovell
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by ccovell »

Shouldn't $2C00-$2FFF be the original for NT b, since its location never changes? $2800-$2BFF and $2400-$27FF are the NTs that change depending on mirroring bits.
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ulfalizer
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by ulfalizer »

Pokun wrote:I have to admit that as a newbie, the term "mirroring" has always confused me to no end. I don't say that the term "scrolling" makes me any wiser though.
When you see "mirroring", think mapping from addresses to nametable locations. At the conceptual level you have four screens arranged in a square, with $2000-$23FF being top-left, $2400-$27FF top-right, $2800-2BFF bottom-left, and $2C00-$2FFF bottom-right. What scrolling does is place a viewport the size of the screen within this square. What mirroring finally does is to determine how the addresses that fall within that viewport map to nametable locations. Without extra nametable memory in the cart you always need some kind of non-linear mirroring, as there are twice as many address locations as there is nametable memory (CIRAM).

Just in case the above was a confusing way to put it, the mapping (mirroring mode) assigns a nametable location to each address within the four-screen square. The viewport in turn selects some portion of the square, and the way the addresses within that portion are mapped determines what gets drawn.

Even though it's pitched towards emulator authors, I think you really need to read through the The skinny on NES scrolling page to understand how all the addressing stuff works out when the PPU draws the background.

Edit: Square/rectangle/whatever... should be clear enough. :P
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by tepples »

ccovell wrote:Shouldn't $2C00-$2FFF be the original for NT b, since its location never changes? $2800-$2BFF and $2400-$27FF are the NTs that change depending on mirroring bits.
Or $2400-$2BFF never changes, and $2000-$23FF and $2C00-$2FFF are mirrors. Some of my early init code cleared this $2400-$2BFF range. (Nowadays I have it clear $3C0 bytes to one value and $40 bytes to another in a subroutine.) But the goal of the diagram was to connect mirroring to the arrangement terminology that the "H Scroll" stuff implies. Besides, what you say isn't true of diagonal mirroring.
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by Zepper »

The hotfile.com is gone. :( Could someone update the wiki page with new (?) links?
lidnariq
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by lidnariq »

... Oh, right, hotfile.com was shut down.
Pokun
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by Pokun »

ulfalizer wrote:
Pokun wrote:I have to admit that as a newbie, the term "mirroring" has always confused me to no end. I don't say that the term "scrolling" makes me any wiser though.
When you see "mirroring", think mapping from addresses to nametable locations. At the conceptual level you have four screens arranged in a square, with $2000-$23FF being top-left, $2400-$27FF top-right, $2800-2BFF bottom-left, and $2C00-$2FFF bottom-right. What scrolling does is place a viewport the size of the screen within this square. What mirroring finally does is to determine how the addresses that fall within that viewport map to nametable locations. Without extra nametable memory in the cart you always need some kind of non-linear mirroring, as there are twice as many address locations as there is nametable memory (CIRAM).

Just in case the above was a confusing way to put it, the mapping (mirroring mode) assigns a nametable location to each address within the four-screen square. The viewport in turn selects some portion of the square, and the way the addresses within that portion are mapped determines what gets drawn.

Even though it's pitched towards emulator authors, I think you really need to read through the The skinny on NES scrolling page to understand how all the addressing stuff works out when the PPU draws the background.

Edit: Square/rectangle/whatever... should be clear enough. :P
Thanks. I think I understand the basics about mirroring now. Gonna read through "The skinny on NES scrolling" sometime.
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rainwarrior
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by rainwarrior »

If you do, I recommend this revised version of it on the wiki, rather than the old txt document: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/The_ ... _scrolling

(Not trying to downplay Loopy's great work in documenting this stuff, but I'd like to think that with multiple authors on the wiki we've made a lot of improvement to understandability here.)
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by tokumaru »

"The skinny on NES scrolling" isn't directly related to mirroring, and since you're still learning the basics, it might actually confuse you. I suggest you put reading "the skinny" on hold until you need to work with mid-screen scroll changes.
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by No Carrier »

Zepper wrote:The hotfile.com is gone. :( Could someone update the wiki page with new (?) links?
Yeah, can someone repost these? I'd love to see them.

Thanks!
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by Pokun »

These links will expire. I'm not sure if I can just upload these as an attachment instead.
http://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/v8gG ... INnSzASsKw

I thought of giving a translation of these a try, but the print is so bad that I couldn't even finish the first page for MMC1. I couldn't see some kanji or find them in any dictionary.
tokumaru wrote:"The skinny on NES scrolling" isn't directly related to mirroring, and since you're still learning the basics, it might actually confuse you. I suggest you put reading "the skinny" on hold until you need to work with mid-screen scroll changes.
I see. I haven't tried to do any scrolling at all yet. I'm currently studying the APU using Metal Slime's Nerdy Nights guide.
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No Carrier
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by No Carrier »

Pokun wrote:These links will expire. I'm not sure if I can just upload these as an attachment instead.
http://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/v8gG ... INnSzASsKw

I thought of giving a translation of these a try, but the print is so bad that I couldn't even finish the first page for MMC1. I couldn't see some kanji or find them in any dictionary.
Thanks, I got them. Yeah, looks like they were scanned with really high contrast / black and white (as opposed to greyscale). Appreciate it!
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by Overload »

Pokun wrote:I thought of giving a translation of these a try, but the print is so bad that I couldn't even finish the first page for MMC1. I couldn't see some kanji or find them in any dictionary.
These pdfs are reconstructions I made from SONIC3D's scans. I've done all the MMC1 docs but some I haven't yet formated.

mmc1_pinout_(Japan)_(1986-08-23).pdf (revised)
mmc1_cassette_(Japan)_(1986-11-18).pdf (revised)
mmc1_notice_(Japan)_(1989-06-15).pdf (revised)
game_cassette_registration_(Japan)_(1987-02-10).pdf
mmc1_multi-checker_(Japan).pdf
Last edited by Overload on Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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naruko
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by naruko »

オーストラリアの人が文書を作り直すとは驚きました。間違いを見つけました。

mmc1_pinout_(Japan)_(1986_08_23).pdf
誤: 23 | φ2 | CPU クロツク
正: 23 | φ2 | CPU クロック
間違っていても大丈夫

mmc1_cassette_(Japan)_(1986-11-18).pdf
page1 の冒頭
誤: ROMカセットに対応しがっ、
正: ROMカセットに対応しかつ、
これは変と感じます。 「かつ」means "and",普段使わない言葉です。

mmc1_notice_(Japan)_(1986_06_15).pdf
末尾の辺り
拡張のCSに接続されているのでの CS の上にラインが必要 (負論理記号が必要)
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by Pokun »

Overloadさん、Narukoさん、手伝ってありがとうございました!
今ならぼくたちはこの文書を翻訳できるはずです!Overloadさんは多分、光学文字認識で文書を作り直しましたから、
こんなに間違いになったでしょう。

I guess Overload used some kind of OCR method to reconstruct the documents?
That would explain those weird mistakes anyway.
Thanks a lot anyway! I started to translate the first page:

NES_MMC1_0001.jpg

Code: Select all

0001

MMC Cartridge Programming Specifications

Draw up date	1986-11-18
Revision date	1987-3-26


This memory controller MMC (Multi Memory Controller) for Family Computer has been developed at Nintendo.
From now on it supports ROM cartridges that are expected at a larger and larger scale, and it is also
designed to bring about much more flexibility for program development.


--- Merits of MMC ---

1. Possibility to expand memory space ... Program 2M / RAM 64Kx2 / Character 1M

2. Bank settings details .... Program 16K units, possibility to change permanent settings / Character 4K units

3. Possibility to support battery backup ... Lithium batteries guaranteed to last 5 years, 64K RAM

4. V-RAM control ..... H-V settings / 1 screen scrolling

5. Effective copy protection ..... Since it is a custom IO it is difficult to replace it with another gate type.


Nintendo Co., Ltd.
I'm not sure about the terms. Maybe port is better than gate in that last sentence? Also that line about ROM cartridges may be needed to be redone.


僕はおそらくたくさん間違いしますから、ご遠慮なく直してください。
Everyone are welcome to contribute with corrections, translations, suggestions, criticism, image editing and so on.
Last edited by Pokun on Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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infiniteneslives
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Re: Several Famicom Nes Documents... in Japanese

Post by infiniteneslives »

Good stuff, would love to see it all translated someday. ;)

Gate sounds like the best choice, port wouldn't make as much sense in that sentence.
If you're gonna play the Game Boy, you gotta learn to play it right. -Kenny Rogers
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