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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:24 pm 
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You see? The "wow" factor... Both are nice games, but one of them just stands out.

Bah... I'm there to build NES games, not to build SNES games or PSX games or whatever that still run on NES just to be able to show off that I pulled the hardware off to it's limits.

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Couldn't agree more. I can enjoy some pretty ugly games because of how much fun they are. But if you have 2 equaly amusing games, one with great graphics and one with lousy graphics. Wich one would you rather play?

Wait ! Standards graphics aren't lossy graphics. You can even have good graphics wihtout using incredible tricks on the NES, I'm convincted.
And I honnestly think that you'll play a game for it's gameplay. Graphics are about 1% or less about how enjoyable a game is. Howver, a game pulling 3D graphics but that totatly fails in anyother aspects (i.e. Elite) isn't a good game.

Okay for say demo could work, but personally I'd be pretty proud once I'll release my first NES game... with very standard graphics for the NES, but with I hope fair gameplay and fun. I wouldn't be proud of releasing overloads of demoes shoing some possibilities of the NES at all, personally. Maybe you would.

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That's great! I'd really like to see the game some day. Isometric view is one of my favorite things in the game world.

Yeah, I think isometric and top-down view are my two favorite perspectives. Tough, I HATE first person view and I really don't like mucg polygon-based graphcis unless they are really rally well done (like in FFX).

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Well, maybe some day your bed will show you the way out of MMC5! =) I actually believe it can happen!

LOL !!
I'm now drawing overloads of isometric maps during scool course. It's really amusing. However, I think multilayering can really help the task a lot, so I'm rather thinking about a SNES isometric game. Doing it on NES would me let the choise between sacrify a MMC5, leving me only a MMC1 for my big RPG project, "Ecological Evolution" or have very limited feature and use a standard mapper. I don't know wich choise to do. Forget until SNES, sacrify MMC5 or keep in mind for MMC1.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:13 am 
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2D is better than 3D - You and your 4th dimension -- it's cute! We have five. Thousand!

Texture mapping on NES. Sounds like a fucking challenge. I did bumpmapping on GBC, gouraud shading and texture mapping on GBA (shipped titles). But never on an 8-bit-- that's *damn* interesting. If you say it's not possible or stupid, all you're saying is that you're not crazy enough, IMHO.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:20 am 
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I'm surprised noone's mentioned Stuck in Castle Nessenstein. There's no texture mapping, but I think it's a really cool demo. http://www.cyd.liu.se/~micol972/site/console.htm

I couldn't figure out the 3D stuff much.. even with all the hand-holding in the C=Hacking 3D tutorials.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:53 am 
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Memblers wrote:
I'm surprised noone's mentioned Stuck in Castle Nessenstein.

Shit! Mine will not be the first NES raycaster anymore. Oh hell, mine will have to be the first with textures.

I almost lost the name too, mine is called WolfNEStein. Oh well, that's what happens when you take too long to finish stuff. Let that be a lesson for me! =)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:10 am 
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tokumaru wrote:
I almost lost the name too, mine is called WolfNEStein.


Well, there's always other names to use. How about "Doomtendo" or "Castle Famicom"?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:41 am 
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tokumaru wrote:
Oh well, that's what happens when you take too long to finish stuff.

In that case, how about "Duke NESem Forever"? :)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:52 pm 
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How about "Faceball 1985"?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:58 pm 
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tepples wrote:
How about "Faceball 1985"?

This was a gameboy game right? The first raycaster ever?

Well, I played that demo (sicn.nes). It's nice to finally see a raycaster done for the NES. Mine is taking too long to get finished but at least now I can rest knowing that maybe it is because I'm implementing so many more features. The most difficult thing to get rid of was the block that shouldn't show but it does when you move towards a corner (happens a lot in this demo). The solution was quite simple, but took a very long time to figure out. The other pain in the ass was figuring out how to remove the "fisheye" (distorted walls) effect without adding too much extra complexity.

Anyway, I shouldn't be saying those things without a demo in my hands, should I? =)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:36 pm 
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Talking about 3D effects... What about scaling and rotating sprites on the NES ? It would take a few pattern table space and a few code for each scanling/rotating sprite.
I think scanling isn't too hard. Using the trick to have 16-bit counter and une only the high 8 bits as the pixel index should work fine.
Rotating would be pretty undoable to what I currently know. Any ideas ?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:09 pm 
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I don't know much about rotating either... at least not the kind that looks pleasant! Scaling can definately be done. Well, almost anything can be done if you don't care about the frame rate =). If each tile is used to represent 4 "pixels" (4x4 pixel squares used as the base unit, the "pixel"), we'd have a 64x60 pixel screen to work with. I'd avoid doing any attribute table operations though, and stick to using 4 colors.

I think "rotozoomers" have been so extensively done in the past that there must be some fast integer way of performing them by now. Information on it probably isn't to hard to find either. Supposing it can all be calculated in the time of 4 frames, it can also be copied to the name table in this time, if you copy 240 tiles per VBlank. Hard, but not impossible. That would provide a frame rate of 15 fps. More than acceptable for the NES.

Someone should try that. I just can't get excited over these things or my projects pay the price! =)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:28 pm 
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Wait, I said sprites so the scaling/rotating would only apply to small object. I'm not even thinking about appliing that to the BG, because, just like texture polygons, it *can* be done but with a incredibly poor framerate.
For example, FF2's map can be rotated and all, but it takes about two second when you just move a bit with the arrows keys, so of course seeing the world map is incredibly boring to the player, that should do something like 2 minutes just to see the other part of the world map.
I think decent framerate is very important and cound in technical limitation.
I think doing small object (not larger than 32x32 pixels) scale and/or rotating is doable.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:24 pm 
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I'll be using rotation also, the best way I figure is to use the main feature of a NES cart.. having lots of memory.

So instead of just this: Image

Pre-calculate it all, and load it in the buffer.
Image

I think the program I used to generate that from the original graphic was Game Maker.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:28 pm 
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Ah, Memblers, not fair. =) Storing the sprite previously rotated at several angles absolutelly does not count. Even the atari 2600 does that, in some tank game. =)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:14 am 
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If of course is simpler, but it wastes pattern table space.
I mean doing rotation by software and CHRAM.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:05 am 
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Very few non-Super-FX games even on the Super NES used real-time sprite scaling or rotation. In fact, Yoshi's Island seems to use the Super FX chip primarily for just that, by drawing sprites as texture-mapped quads.


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