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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:46 pm 
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If I took CHR /RD and put it through a delay line maybe that'd work, but that'd cause the dumb situation of having VRAM updates not doable during vblank.. heheh. And delay lines are expensive anyways.


Not an 8-bit shift register like the one in every NES and SNES controller. :)

It's analog delay lines that are expensive.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:04 pm 
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A shift register, interesting idea. I don't know what would clock it though. All I've got so far is CHR/RD NAND CHR/WR for the 'idle cycle /CE'.

Here's the kind of delay line I was talking about.. these suckers are over $6 each. http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS1100.pdf

Sorry for hijacking the thread a bit.. it's still on topic somewhat though. It'll be cool once this kinda stuff works. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 am 
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> The PAL NES seems to be fun for demos, but I kinda fell like what I fell
> about using MMC5. A bit like cheating. Maybe even worse.
>
> Exactly what I said. If it's not possible for a game to run on both systems,
> not even through some hacking, it should not be called an actual NES
> game.

> The wrong thing is when you can say this about a game: "This will not
> run on a NTSC console, never, ever, no matter how much you change
> it".

This is pure BS IMO. The goal of retrocoding typically is to make cool stuff that works on the favorite console of your childhood memories, and I fail to see why anyone doing so should feel obliged to consider similar consoles which can only be played in black-and-white on his television, and are only used in countries far abroad which he may never even visit. And this most definitely goes for the case when his target console is far superior to the foreign similar ones mentioned above.

Even a pirate clone with mediocre NES compatibility is a perfectly valid target system, as long as you specify it as the target system. (i.e., label your creation a Pegasus game (or any other clone system you developed it for) rather than a NES game)

On the other hand, I agree that it is a nice goal to code your stuff for both systems. And if you wish to eBay your creation when done, you better do some thinking about how to convert (or peel off) its features to make it NTSC-compliant if you want to make some cash off retrogamers out there.

> A flaw of the PAL TVs is that is doesn't hide the top and bottom 8 pixels,
> making a lot of glitches in pretty much every NES game.

Come again? PAL television sets predate the NES's birth by MANY years, so I can assure you that the flaw is not in the TV. A PAL TV has 288 visible lines out of 312 total (312.5 if you want to be interlace about it), and the PAL NES just fills the empty lines out with more neat vblank time.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:27 am 
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Yeah, I mean PAL NES, not PAL TVs, I went wrong. Sorry.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:36 am 
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Bananmos wrote:
Even a pirate clone with mediocre NES compatibility is a perfectly valid target system, as long as you specify it as the target system. (i.e., label your creation a Pegasus game (or any other clone system you developed it for) rather than a NES game)

But then you get into "Nesticle games" which might be fine for (say) a few Final Fantasy fans (and marginally better than Fake fake fake fake fake) but apparently not for some vocal critics. That said, "FCE Ultra/Nestopia/Nintendulator games" are fine for at least me right now.

Quote:
On the other hand, I agree that it is a nice goal to code your stuff for both systems. And if you wish to eBay your creation when done, you better do some thinking about how to convert (or peel off) its features to make it NTSC-compliant if you want to make some cash off retrogamers out there.

But then you're either tearing apart NES carts to get lockout chips or you're selling "NES-with-CIC-pin-4-cut games", not "NES games".


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:13 pm 
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tepples wrote:
selling "NES-with-CIC-pin-4-cut games"


Otherwise known as "Famicom/Toploader-NES games"...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:08 pm 
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But are there enough PAL toploaders?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:29 pm 
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Bananmos wrote:
I fail to see why anyone doing so should feel obliged to consider similar consoles which can only be played in black-and-white on his television, and are only used in countries far abroad which he may never even visit.

That comment was kinda selfish. We, here in the nesdev boards, are from many different countries, but we still like to share our projects with each other (after all, who could be more interested in nesdev'ing than other nesdev'ers?). Wouldn't it be nice if everyone could enjoy your game/demo just as much?

Of course it's all easier with emulators, just set it to whatever the demo/game is supposed to run in.

It's not an obligation... It's just that compatibility is a nice thing to have.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:49 pm 
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Making something work on both a PAL and NTSC NES costs something in extra complexity and lack of use of things which only work on one console. As an example of the costs, consider what it would take to make these nesdev boards accessible to someone no matter what their native language, to the point of disallowing any discussion that isn't accessible to everyone, and making everyone put up with the endless rounds of misunderstanding due to poor language skills. Without a restricted scope, many things would never get done due to the cost of the general solution (selfishness is an example of this, the scope being restricted to what is in one's own interests).


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:24 am 
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tepples wrote:
Bananmos wrote:
Even a pirate clone with mediocre NES compatibility is a perfectly valid target system, as long as you specify it as the target system. (i.e., label your creation a Pegasus game (or any other clone system you developed it for) rather than a NES game)

But then you get into "Nesticle games" which might be fine for (say) a few Final Fantasy fans (and marginally better than Fake fake fake fake fake) but apparently not for some vocal critics. That said, "FCE Ultra/Nestopia/Nintendulator games" are fine for at least me right now.

I'd say on my own that any poorly written NES programm that only runs under nesticle or something, big changes are that is it possible to fix it to run on a real NES or a decent emulator proprely, unlike the faked faked faked faked FFX for NES, which actually has nothing to do with the NES exept graphics.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:05 pm 
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yeah, celius phrase is like a stick it's sound good...

ff nes imitators fake fake fake fake fake fake!!!

:P

ps: memblers.. can you making a automatic fake counter and send it to ff imitators??? hahaha (lol)

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