Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy too?

Discuss technical or other issues relating to programming the Nintendo Entertainment System, Famicom, or compatible systems.

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mikejmoffitt
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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by mikejmoffitt » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:31 am

Of course, the viewfinder itself was for all intents and purposes an adorable ~1" CRT monitor, which synchronizes to NTSC timing video, sans color demodulation. It too had to be just as tolerant!

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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by Dwedit » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:57 am

The thing about the blacker than black color is that it is used during the process of generating all the dark colors. The dark colors are a square wave between gray 00 and blacker than black 0D.
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Vectrex2809
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Wiki article about #$0D using games

Post by Vectrex2809 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:58 am

So I got my copy of Indy, and the there were no $0D related glitches on it for some reason. I'm going to check my copy of TMNT, too.
Also, since it's established that more than a few games used $0D, would anyone be in favour of creating a wiki page listing all these NES games?

For now, it is known that those games use $0D

Bee 52
The Fantastic Adventures of Dizzy
Micro Machines
Quattro Sports
Quattro Adventures
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (UBI Soft)
Skate or Die 2
The Immortal
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Other Codemasters games probably do use this colour too, I don't really have any more of these to test though...

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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by CZroe » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:28 am

Ah! So this is what's happening here:
http://youtu.be/3fhyX3HdVcg

Strangely, I can't find a single TV that it works with it and neither could the previous owner (sold it as "broken"). I wonder how it would work in a Retron 5 or something. :)

Also strangely: I've had no issues with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Game Genie, Micro-Machines, Quattro Sports (including baseball), Skate or Die 2: The Search for Double Trouble, and some other Quattro game I have around.

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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by Dwedit » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:26 pm

So The Immortal is using 0D *and* all the emphasis bits? Wow. Try the Game Genie codes for Super Mario 1 to see if they have the same effect.
(codes again: IESAAIZX, VNOEIETO)

Also if you're really interested, I could try to make game genie codes to fix the game.
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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by CZroe » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:49 pm

Well, I tried it on year another CRT and it works perfectly! Thanks, guys. The B&W NES didn't change a thing (I guess "blacker than black" persists through the B&W signal).
Dwedit wrote:Wow. Try the Game Genie codes for Super Mario 1 to see if they have the same effect.
(codes again: IESAAIZX, VNOEIETO)
Will do! I have to fetch it next time I'm at my man cave (I only keep Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt/World Class Track Meet with me at my apartment).
Dwedit wrote:Also if you're really interested, I could try to make game genie codes to fix the game.
Very interested, if it's not too much trouble! It'd be one reason to keep a Game Genie around (been wondering what I's ever do with mine). :) I just need to find a way to fit it in a toploader.

Edit: got some from thefox and rainwarrior from a thread I made before I knew about this issue. Thanks though!

Finally tried the SMB patches: Neither one alone will trigger the problem (tried emphasis bits in world 3-1 too) but when they are combined it's scramble-city!
Last edited by CZroe on Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by thefox » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:04 pm

CZroe wrote:
Dwedit wrote:Also if you're really interested, I could try to make game genie codes to fix the game.
Very interested, if it's not too much trouble! It'd be one reason to keep a Game Genie around (been wondering what I's ever do with mine). :) I just need to find a way to fit it in a toploader.
Already posted some codes here: viewtopic.php?p=167705#p167705

BTW it's a little bit annoying that we have two threads going on about the same topic now.
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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games

Post by zeroone » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:05 pm

Dwedit wrote:Looks like that dizzy game needs a sound fix, just like Dizzy the Adventurer.

More specifically, it has the same bug as Dizzy the Adventurer where it resets the phase of the square channels every frame. This is due to unconditional writes to 0x4003 and 0x4007, and results in an annoying 60hz buzzing noise.
I'd normally make a patch myself, but no point in doing this if someone has the source code and can just change these things easily.

How to fix the bug:
Make a variable somewhere that would be the same as what the sound register at 0x4003 or 0x4007 contained on the last write. When you write to 0x4003 or 0x4007, check if the value is different that the last value written. If it is not different, don't do the write, otherwise do the write and store the last written variable.
As I mentioned on another thread, my emulator experiences buzzing in Camerica games, particularly during the animated logo. But, I noticed in other emulators, the logo coincides with a clear ding, without the buzzing.

Are emulators performing the logic described above internally to avoid the Camerica buzzing issue?

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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by rainwarrior » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:22 pm

Dwedit did explain the problem. His solution isn't an emulator fix, it's how to patch the game.

Emulators that don't have the "problem" are inaccurate, but it just means they're not resetting phase on $4003/4007 writes like they should. In most games this is a harmless thing to omit. In Dizzy it makes it sound better (but inaccurate).

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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by zeroone » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:28 pm

rainwarrior wrote:Dwedit did explain the problem. His solution isn't an emulator fix, it's how to patch the game.

Emulators that don't have the "problem" are inaccurate, but it just means they're not resetting phase on $4003/4007 writes like they should. In most games this is a harmless thing to omit. In Dizzy it makes it sound better (but inaccurate).
Interesting. Any idea which emulators produce an accurate buzz to enable a comparison? Maybe it should just be an emulator configuration option.

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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by rainwarrior » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:32 pm

I made it an option in NSFPlay, but it's a specifically sound oriented emulator.

I don't know what other emulators implement it or not, but just run Dizzy and it should be clear immediately whether the emulator does it.

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zeroone
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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by zeroone » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:39 pm

rainwarrior wrote:I made it an option in NSFPlay, but it's a specifically sound oriented emulator.

I don't know what other emulators implement it or not, but just run Dizzy and it should be clear immediately whether the emulator does it.
Unfortunately, I cannot find a buzzing emulator out there except for mine. I may just be doing something else wrong in my square wave generator.

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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by zeroone » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:52 am

The buzzing issue in my emulator is now resolved. The Camerica logo sound effect exposed a bug in my pulse wave generator. I misinterpreted the wiki; the second pulse channel should be muted during the effect.

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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by thefox » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:41 am

zeroone wrote:Unfortunately, I cannot find a buzzing emulator out there except for mine. I may just be doing something else wrong in my square wave generator.
How hard did you look? I get buzzing in the logo in FCEUX (quite loud) and Nintendulator (faint).

BTW, I don't think it's related to the Dizzy "problem".
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Re: Televisions don't like Camerica games EDIT:Ubisoft Indy

Post by Tormenter » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:16 pm

Anyone got this game to work on real hardware? Tried on powerpak and worked fine, put on a cart, and nothing but garbled graphics.

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