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vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:24 pm
by ibmp200
:?: this is in regards to the top loading nintendo, NES-101. some web sites seem to show that its as simple as lifting pin 21 of the P P U. but it also seems to require more work than simply disconnecting the pin.

i am not trying to modify my system to R G B video. i just want to remove those jailbars, while still using the original video output on this system. what is the simplest way to remove those bars? is it just lifting that pin?

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:05 pm
by lidnariq
There have been several dozen threads about this, and although some people have achieved better or worse results.

Basically you'll be re-modding the video path (as though it were RF only) and then replacing the existing output stage.

Just search for the forum for "jailbars".

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:40 pm
by ibmp200
so then, lidnariq. it seems to me from what you said here, that lifting pin 21 would prevent the factory video output socket to work; therein giving me a blank screen. but i dont mean to replace the output, and just use the original.

i searched for 'jailbars' and only like 5 or 6 threads appeared. and they either didnt give any help, had to do with clones or the front loading nintendo. i do not have a clone, and mine is top loading.

i am still rather lost in this. :(

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:14 am
by lidnariq
... ok, so the NES-101 is RF only. How do you want to get video physically out of it?

Unless you're in possession of one of the extremely rare NES-101s with multi-out jack, mainboard called "NESN-CPU-AV-01"

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:27 am
by rainwarrior
Before you try anything drastic, maybe just try clipping a capacitor on the PPU's power input to see if that helps? (Edit: or was it between pin 20 and 22? I can't remember...)

I've seen a lot of weird stuff like desoldering the PPU and wrapping it in copper tape, etc. but IIRC I had pretty good results on my Famicom AV mod with just a simple capacitor. (Sorry, don't remember the specifics.)

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:09 am
by ibmp200
well lidnariq, i would of course get video out of the factory video thing at the back. but if lifting that pin from the P P U, disables that output; i would revert back to finding the simplest way to do away with those vertical lines.

and rainwarrior, am i looking for a capacitor in line with the power pin of the P P U, or lifting the the power pin on the P P U?


--but if the only way to do without those lines, is to go to an R G B output, or high definition, i am not interested. unless there is some reputable person or company that STILL does modifications, i would just send it out to them to do it.

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:50 am
by Fisher
If I remember correctly, some NES clones use a 47pf ceramic capacitor between the video out and GND, near the video out jack.
That creates some blurriness, but hides very well the jailbars.
Maybe you could try that, since it's a very simple mod, and see if you like it.
Also, could lidnariq suggest a better capacitor value?

I've also seen some RGB moded NESes with jailbars. So it's probably not a 100% sure shot, or maybe the quality of the mods I saw is lacking...

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:45 pm
by ibmp200
fisher, thank you for the capacitor tip. however, i do not have a clone. it is an original top loading NES-101 made by nintendo which i bought in the middle 1990s from i think toys are us. though i do not want any blurriness either.

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:34 pm
by lidnariq
Let me see if I understand the situation correctly right now.

#1 You have a top-loading NES-101
#2 This NES-101 only has a single RCA jack in the back, which goes to an RF switch
#3 There's vertical "jailbars" in the video you get via the RF switch
#3b (These jailbars are comparatively new?)
#4 You'd like to get rid of the jailbars without any other improvements to video quality

Despite the seeming differences, most of the changes that improve a famiclone are equally applicable to Nintendo's own consoles. But yes, I'd just try Rainwarrior's suggestion: add a small capacitor (10 to 100nF) across the PPU's power supply pins. (pins 20 and 40)

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:47 pm
by ibmp200
lidnariq, you are correct on all your points other than 3b. they are not new, as i have noticed this many many times over the past years since about the time of purchase. but way back then, i was more interested in playing a game than caring about video quality. now that i know theyre there, i want them gone.

and again, i will mention, this console is not a clone. it is an original console, made by nintendo of america in the middle 1990s.

so then, just a capacitor on the power pins is all i need to elimanate the bars? will they be completely gone, or just barely visible after that modification?

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:27 pm
by lidnariq
ibmp200 wrote:and again, i will mention, this console is not a clone. it is an original console, made by nintendo of america in the middle 1990s.
Just to reiterate: This doesn't matter. OEM or clone, the causes of the problem are the same.

The only difference is that most people want to A/V mod their console at the same time
so then, just a capacitor on the power pins is all i need to eliminate the bars? will they be completely gone, or just barely visible after that modification?
Maybe. Maybe not. As you can tell from the myriad posts about this, this doesn't have a simple solution. But adding this capacitor appears to be the single simplest step that often helps.

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:56 pm
by rainwarrior
ibmp200 wrote:so then, just a capacitor on the power pins is all i need to elimanate the bars? will they be completely gone, or just barely visible after that modification?
I can't say, I've seen all sorts of reports of varying amounts of jailbars with various mods. This isn't an exact science, just a handful of reports from various people who have tried different things over the years.

You can probably attach a capacitor without even having to solder anything though, so you might as well try it before considering more difficult options.

Re: vertical bar removal questions

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:43 pm
by ibmp200
alright guys, thank you for the input here, especially clones versus original.

i may try the capacitor option, but in the meantime here in my research prior to the earlier responses, i did find this web site, https://store.retrofixes.com/collection ... 5025129985 and am considering going with menu option +Add GOLD RCA jacks to my order; for 4.95. see attached picture as an example...

this of course would mean my sending it in for modification. i would rather someone else do necessary changes, than my amateur attempts.

i rarely use this thing, and have just 6 games; and generally either go with the nintendo classic, or a computer emulator for most console games. but when i do plug it in, it will eventualy have better video, and the faux stereo sound instead of one channel monaural and the infamous jailbars.