NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Discuss technical or other issues relating to programming the Nintendo Entertainment System, Famicom, or compatible systems.

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poteroa
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:35 pm

NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by poteroa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:42 pm

Hi all!

New to the forum, and not quite sure is this the correct location for my help request. :beer:

I got a 8-bit for the first time since 90´s, broken. Front loader.

The only issues the guy said it had, was that the graphics are scrambled, and that was the 72-pin connector.

Fixed that issue, and recapped the whole unit except the rubicons, as they were all ok.

My problem is with the picture being a bit off, graphics, like text in Super Mario is not clear and sharp, but a bit wavy.

Like a letter T is a bit off and same with other graphics, they are not crisp. Like the sync vertically is a bit off.

The console works otherwise well, games start on each insert. And happens with all games.

What I have tried so far:

New composite cables, 2 TV:s and all possible settings gone through, original AC PSU and aftermarket PSU.
(composite cables were plain RCA and other meant for picture, with graphite rings, do not know the correct word for that, english is not my mother tonque).. :D

I have only seen 2 posts in internet with the same problem, but no solution.

BR Pete
Last edited by poteroa on Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lidnariq
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Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by lidnariq » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:47 pm

Looks like this: viewtopic.php?t=21394 ?

poteroa
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Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by poteroa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:57 pm

lidnariq wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:47 pm
Looks like this: viewtopic.php?t=21394 ?
Hi!

That was a fast reply..:D

Thank you, I seem to have totally same problem, except the wavy also changes the color of the edges.

I try to get few pics of the issue here later today, I do not want to believe that the pic is this bad, as seen in internet several vids that do not have this problem, on normal LCD TVs.

I am ready to go all way with replacing the PPU / CPU if needed, although would not want to replace stuff that is not needed..

Oh, and in Super Mario, when there is the level screen (black) the picture is crisp on all text and numbers, only when the colors and "full image" is on, its off, quite a bit..

lidnariq
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Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by lidnariq » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:01 pm

Is it only edges that are colored, or do the middle of large areas of solid color also have some color error?

If only edges, then I'm afraid that this is probably as good as the original PAL NES ever generated ... If you really want something better you might install a NESRGB or HDNES kit.

poteroa
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Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by poteroa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:20 pm

lidnariq wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:01 pm
Is it only edges that are colored, or do the middle of large areas of solid color also have some color error?

If only edges, then I'm afraid that this is probably as good as the original PAL NES ever generated ... If you really want something better you might install a NESRGB or HDNES kit.
Here are some pics:


https://ibb.co/NxLHDD6

https://ibb.co/r6f98NS

https://ibb.co/NS3my5N

And not talking about the wavy pic in general, as its there cause of the camera and sync of it..

The last pic you can see the wave on square surfaces, so the whole pic is off..

lidnariq
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Location: Seattle

Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by lidnariq » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:35 pm

I regret to say that your HDTV sucks. :P

These are crops from "r6f98NS" = "20210401-062218"

"A":
20210401-062218-a.jpg
20210401-062218-a.jpg (27.1 KiB) Viewed 620 times
Normal composite video chroma error. Some HDTVs do better or worse with transitions between black and a color, but this is within the range of normal.

"C":
20210401-062218-c.jpg
20210401-062218-c.jpg (35.07 KiB) Viewed 620 times
Moiré effects from the grid of your HDTV and your camera. You shouldn't see these in person

"B":
20210401-062218-b.jpg
20210401-062218-b.jpg (40.82 KiB) Viewed 620 times
and "D":
20210401-062218-d.jpg
20210401-062218-d.jpg (35.57 KiB) Viewed 620 times
Your HDTV being Wrong. PAL isn't supposed to produce lines of horizontal dots in this situation, but modern TV use comb filter instead of a delay line, and so assume sudden change in colors from scanline to scanline mean lines of horizontal dots. Here's a related thread: viewtopic.php?t=18406

So ... on the bright side, your NES is working as designed. On the downside, you may want an OSSC or a NESRGB to improve the appearance.

poteroa
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Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by poteroa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:39 pm

lidnariq wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:35 pm
I regret to say that your HDTV sucks. :P

These are crops from "r6f98NS" = "20210401-062218"

"A":20210401-062218-a.jpgNormal composite video chroma error. Some HDTVs do better or worse with transitions between black and a color, but this is within the range of normal.

"C":20210401-062218-c.jpgMoiré effects from the grid of your HDTV and your camera. You shouldn't see these in person

"B":20210401-062218-b.jpg and "D":20210401-062218-d.jpgYour HDTV being Wrong. PAL isn't supposed to produce lines of horizontal dots in this situation, but modern TV use comb filter instead of a delay line, and so assume sudden change in colors from scanline to scanline mean lines of horizontal dots. Here's a related thread: viewtopic.php?t=18406

So ... on the bright side, your NES is working as designed. On the downside, you may want an OSSC or a NESRGB to improve the appearance.

Hi lidnariq.

Well, the wavyness is still there on other TV, on this where I took the pic off, has those small dots under the text, but on other there is none.

Both are Samsung LCD / LED TVs, but different ages..

Damn, do I need to get a CRT.. :D

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Ben Boldt
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Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by Ben Boldt » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:35 am

At times like this, we must remind ourselves to embrace and cherish the delicious glitches and crunchiness of the NES.

poteroa
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Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by poteroa » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:54 pm

Ben Boldt wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:35 am
At times like this, we must remind ourselves to embrace and cherish the delicious glitches and crunchiness of the NES.
Ben, you are so right! :D :beer:

Well tonight will try with a good old CRT TV. With RF modulator.. So I recon the picture will have all the above and then some..

Can't wait. :mrgreen:

Pokun
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Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by Pokun » Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:19 am

Is that Mario wearing floating pince-nez spectacles?

poteroa
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Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by poteroa » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:46 am

Rf modulator, 14" CRT.. picture is perfect.

Well for a 1987 game console. 🤘

poteroa
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Re: NES PAL version, wavy edges on graphics

Post by poteroa » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:46 am

Pokun wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:19 am
Is that Mario wearing floating pince-nez spectacles?
:lol:

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