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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Posts: 10047
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Hello all

I'm currently working on a project in wich I use pseudo pixels to draw stuff to the screen. I'm using the tiles to simulate quite large pixels (we've all seen this a few times before).

The thing is since I'm already working at such low resolution, if I get stuck with only 4 colors my program will look like shit. I can't use different palettes and have different values in the attribute table since there is no way my program will respect 16x16 pixel squares, it is all very dynamic.

Then I figured that if I combined 2 4-color palettes, I'd get an amazing total of 16 colors. My plan is: I'll render the image twice (one on each page, one on top of the other, doesn't matter), one with the pixels for one palette and the other for another palette. Then I'll flip both images and palettes every (NES) frame to combine the two images in one (NTSC) frame.

I have already picked the perfect 2 palettes for what I'm planning, the combinations look amazing.

In theory it works very well, but do you guys have any experience on how this kind of effect looks on an actual TV? I'm pretty sure it will look like crap on emulators. There are some NES demos about interlacing trying to achieve the same goal right?

I have no way to test this stuff on the actual hardware, so I'm asking to anyone who has seen this kind of effect running on a NES and a TV, how well does it work?

Thanks in advance!


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 Post subject: Giving me a seizure eh?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19091
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
You're drawing a 64x56 pixel frame buffer in the nametable as in Chris Covell's "Motion" demo, right?

"Interlacing" as you know it from NTSC and PAL doesn't happen on the NES. The NES runs in a so-called "240p" mode, which uses only 262 or 312 lines per field (not 262.5 as in standard NTSC or 312.5 as in standard PAL50).

You can alternate between two 4-color palettes, and the result might look ok in PocketNES on a GameCube Game Boy Player with motion blurring set to Soft, but some combinations will have an annoying 30 Hz flicker on a real NES connected to a real TV. You'd need an even bigger seizure warning than Nintendo has put on its most recent GameCube games.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:01 am 
tepples wrote:
You're drawing a 64x56 pixel frame buffer in the nametable as in Chris Covell's "Motion" demo, right?


Something like that, yeah... His demo was a movie that looped forever, right? I'm planning something more dynamic and interactive! =) I'm not using the whole screen though, as it would be too slow...

Image

It is a raycaster with textured walls and such. I got the prototype working in delphi, with all optimizations for the NES in mind. No divisions are performed so far, only multiplications by small numbers and not many of them. I'm using many look-up tables and I really think the NES can pull this one off. Translation to NES assembly will begin soon.

tepples wrote:
"Interlacing" as you know it from NTSC and PAL doesn't happen on the NES. The NES runs in a so-called "240p" mode, which uses only 262 or 312 lines per field (not 262.5 as in standard NTSC or 312.5 as in standard PAL50).

You can alternate between two 4-color palettes, and the result might look ok in PocketNES on a GameCube Game Boy Player with motion blurring set to Soft, but some combinations will have an annoying 30 Hz flicker on a real NES connected to a real TV. You'd need an even bigger seizure warning than Nintendo has put on its most recent GameCube games.


Hum... oh well, I kinda saw that one comming. I recently bought one of those PokeFami things (handheld NES) and sprites that usually flicker on the TV blend with the background and appear translucent on the little screen. I guess the effect might look OK in the PokeFami then. It really seems to have a lower framerate than an NTSC TV.

I was giving up this idea already... 'cause in order to get all these colors I'd have to lower my vertical resolution, and taking resolution away from such a low resolution screen can never be good.


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