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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:55 am 
Bregalad wrote:
Okay, if you say it so, I think it's better. It's a cool think to take advantage of experiance from other people, I usually have to discover all myself.

Hey, I'm not all that experienced either! =) At least in the NES area... Have you ever seen anything I made for the NES? Of course not, I never finished anything! hehe! I have experience in game programming for DOS and some for windows. I really do want to master the NES!
Maybe I'm aiming to high. Not that what I want to do is impossible, but it will take a lot of time, wich I don't have! =)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:26 pm 
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Well, that's the same for mine. I'm now programming a action-adventure game, I've also a RPG in mind, and I'd also like programming one beat 'em up/fighting game for the NES someday, and also platformers maybe, and why not strategy games, well, but programming can become very cool sometimes and very crap, too, when you're unable to make what you want to do.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:53 pm 
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Bregalad wrote:
I'd also like programming one beat 'em up/fighting game for the NES someday

How will you get large enough characters given the 64 sprite pixels per scanline limitation? Or will you resort to horrible flicker like Konami's TMNT: Tournament Fighters and HKO Kart Fighter?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:05 pm 
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tepples wrote:
How will you get large enough characters given the 64 sprite pixels per scanline limitation? Or will you resort to horrible flicker like Konami's TMNT: Tournament Fighters and HKO Kart Fighter?

Well, didn't think about that at all yet. This was just a vague project I'd like to do someday. I think the best way is to have not too large sprites (yeah, I don't know why so many people like large sprites, I myself kinda like the small ones).
In a pure fighting game, I think it would be okay if each character is 4 tiles wide (this is pretty much large, but not very large) so the total would be 8 tiles. Or, a fighting game purely focused on the characters that would be very detailed may even write player 1 with the background and player 2 with the sprites, with no background where the fight actually is, but only above and below (dark graphics could "hide" this). This would require extremely fast PPU writes and a lot of IRQ/sprite #0 timing and stuff, trough.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:04 pm 
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Bregalad wrote:
In a pure fighting game, I think it would be okay if each character is 4 tiles wide (this is pretty much large, but not very large) so the total would be 8 tiles.

True, you can do characters roughly twice as large as those from Super Mario games, but what happens when one character gets knocked to the floor and becomes wider than 8 tiles? And what about the heavy punch and heavy kick, where the limb in question extends rawther far from the character's body? You'd just have to put up with the flicker in those cases.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:09 pm 
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Bregalad wrote:
Well, didn't think about that at all yet. This was just a vague project I'd like to do someday. I think the best way is to have not too large sprites (yeah, I don't know why so many people like large sprites, I myself kinda like the small ones).

I like'em a bit large, not very much. But given the limitations, I don't mind smaller ones at all.

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In a pure fighting game, I think it would be okay if each character is 4 tiles wide (this is pretty much large, but not very large) so the total would be 8 tiles. Or, a fighting game purely focused on the characters that would be very detailed may even write player 1 with the background and player 2 with the sprites, with no background where the fight actually is, but only above and below (dark graphics could "hide" this). This would require extremely fast PPU writes and a lot of IRQ/sprite #0 timing and stuff, trough.

I want to do it someday too, a fighting game. I think it is one of the easiest kinds of game to program. The hard part is drawing all those frames of animation! And I also thought about having one player as sprite and the other one as BG. The sad thing is that the black piece of BG in the middle of the screen where the BG player moves may make it harder to set a mood in the stage. Maybe we could have really dark stages, actual BG in the top and in the bottom, as you said, and fake some BG elements with sprites, but small ones, that won't interfere with the player that is a sprite. We have to keep in mind that sprites will be used for other things, like hitting effects and possibly blood.

Man, I just love to think of ways to do stuff in the NES! I'll probably never finish much, but I love thinking and sketching! =)[/quote]


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:36 am 
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I want to do it someday too, a fighting game. I think it is one of the easiest kinds of game to program. The hard part is drawing all those frames of animation!

Well, it's a fairly good question. I'm still asking what is the easiest genre to programm. I think making a really bad game is easyer than making a good one regardless of the genre. But keep in mind that fighting games needs fast player contols and all the action, that should not be that easy to to. I've heard once that the easiest game to programm were shooters, but once again, I'm not sure. I think programming a plain shooter with bad control and stuff is slighty easy, but having one with great control/action, and having decent bosses that are netither impossible or cake should also be pretty hard.

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And I also thought about having one player as sprite and the other one as BG. The sad thing is that the black piece of BG in the middle of the screen where the BG player moves may make it harder to set a mood in the stage. Maybe we could have really dark stages, actual BG in the top and in the bottom, as you said, and fake some BG elements with sprites, but small ones, that won't interfere with the player that is a sprite. We have to keep in mind that sprites will be used for other things, like hitting effects and possibly blood.

Well, I forgot about that. It would be a NES game, and not a PS2 game, so the hitting effects, blood and stuff aren't needed there, just a great gameplay. Another way to hide the BG stuff may be to swap the "background" palette to another color than black, but it wouldn't look as good than a game with dark grapics and no BG where the action is (like FF3, where the monsters are actually BG).
The main problem is that there is no hardware flipping for the BG on the NES, so you'll have do draw each sprite in both direction. This could be used to have more details than just flipping the sprites, so the character won't be just symetric, but I think all this BG method definitely would be regard only if all characters really are very deatiled. Else, it's a nonsense, and making smaller characters that will occasionally flicker a bit is just simpler/better.
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Man, I just love to think of ways to do stuff in the NES! I'll probably never finish much, but I love thinking and sketching! =)

I agree with you ! I hope that NESHLA or something is really able to fast up NES developpement, because it's sometimes so boring to have stuff to code for your game.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:24 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
I agree with you ! I hope that NESHLA or something is really able to fast up NES developpement, because it's sometimes so boring to have stuff to code for your game.

Yeah... It's really boring to get stuff going... but once we're in the middle of it, it flows a little better. In my opinion the hard part is to start things, since there is so much you have to do before you actually see any results! Once the results start showing up, it all gets easier...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:28 pm 
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tokumaru wrote:
Yeah... It's really boring to get stuff going... but once we're in the middle of it, it flows a little better. In my opinion the hard part is to start things, since there is so much you have to do before you actually see any results! Once the results start showing up, it all gets easier...

Yeah, I begin to see results, but I'm unable to programm those damn enemy animation !

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