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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Aww, well that's a real shame. I was hoping there would be an NTSC filter out there that wouldn't I download an entire programming library just to run it. Thanks anyways!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:54 pm 
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There is a way to fake an NTSC filter using GIMP filters. I think I've explained it in another post.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:51 pm 
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Here, I build it for windows: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11947


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:56 pm 
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I have used up the entirety of the CHR! :shock:
I have managed 15 items, 11 enemies, and three bosses.

I wasted a full 14! tiles, from the 8x16 rule, which is unfortunate. I'm very tempted to go 8x8, and simply reduce on screen enemies in-game. It's not like this game will have scrolling! ...aside from the "screen flipping" transitions. Any opinions on this?

Image

Here are the assembled sprites:
Image

and some of my Nametables, so far:
Image


Attachments:
CatQuest_CHR.chr [8 KiB]
Downloaded 60 times


Last edited by Alp on Sat May 21, 2016 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:58 am 
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So...what about the asymmetric dungeon walls or character palettes? Did those not work? Also, I can't help but feel the 8x16 sprites are really limiting your sprites. 14 tiles is more than enough for an entire 4-directional walking character! Not to mention, if you changed this game to use 8x8 sprites, then the space taken up by radially symmetrical sprites like the poof clouds could be halved!

Regardless, this is some really amazing stuff. I'm still finding it hard to believe how you pulled of a Minish Cap perspective using such limitations...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:28 am 
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DragonDePlatino wrote:
So...what about the asymmetric dungeon walls or character palettes? Did those not work? Also, I can't help but feel the 8x16 sprites are really limiting your sprites.


I hadn't been touching the palettes, or the wall tiles much up until now (the wall tile arrangement in the CHR scares even me!) I'll work on those again, once I have the sprites finished.

Though I'm not a fan of coloured outlines on sprites (HUGE oversaturation in the market, with that), I've been playing with the colours a bit.

I made the switch back to 8x8, and managed a few more items, two more NPCS, a new enemy, and a fourth boss sprite! I have 14 sprite tiles left, now. Not sure if I want another boss, or more enemies. My twin sister says I should make a snake boss. I'm not sure if I can pull that off with 14 tiles. >.>

Behold! A 32x32 flip-sprite boss! He's composed of 11 total tiles.
Image

I prototyped an item menu today, and this is what I came up with:

Image

(This is just BARELY to NES specs, with 59 8x8 sprites used) :shock:
Is it obvious that the layout was thought out, to keep to the 8 sprites per scanline, rule? :P


Last edited by Alp on Sat May 21, 2016 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:11 am 
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Amazing stuff as usual. I assume that you've already redrawn your ROM tables to reflect the new restrictions, but here's my shot at it...

Image

The x's marked in red are the extra spaces I added. Firstly, for their side-walking animations, your characters can use the same head for both frames. And you don't have to add in the 1-pixel bouncing into their ROM graphics, because that can be done during runtime. So really, if you wanted characters with symmetric heads they would only need 12 tiles for a 4-directional walking cycle. You can also reuse the tops of heads for the swimming animations, too. It looks a little more stiff, I know, but the difference is so negligible the player probably wouldn't care.

As for the rest of your item sprites, I removed anything that could be rotated and for the cloud, I removed the bottom halves of those tiles because clouds are radially symmetrical.

As for your snake boss, my suggested approach is over on the left. You could have big 2x2 radially-symmetrical segments and then smaller 1x1 segments as you get closer to the tail. The head could be drawn using 8 minitiles so total, that's 11 minitiles for the entire boss...14 if you don't want your big segments to be radially symmetrical.

Oh, and sorry for the recoloring. I use a different NES palette than you with a lower contrast, so i had to swap the tiles to blue so I could edit them. I also probably missed a lot of tiles, so go ahead and check over them to see if you missed any symmetrical stuff.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:34 pm 
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DragonDePlatino wrote:
rotated [... or ] radially symmetrical
I'm certain this was a terminology failure, but just to be careful: the NES does not support any kind of rotation except 180°, because that is a special case of the native "flip horizontally" and "flip vertically" operations that are allowed for sprites


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:48 pm 
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DragonDePlatino wrote:
Amazing stuff as usual. I assume that you've already redrawn your ROM tables to reflect the new restrictions, but here's my shot at it...


Thanks, guy! I've been re-learning pixel art for the last 8 months, after a long break. (7 years!)
Yeah, I didn't think to include the current CHR this time. Oops! I should probably sort mine, to make it as nice as your example image! Mine's kind of a mess! I stripped out everything. (horizontal lines.)

DragonDePlatino wrote:
As for the rest of your item sprites, I removed anything that could be rotated and for the cloud, I removed the bottom halves of those tiles because clouds are radially symmetrical.


Those extra Horizontal sprites for the weapons are actually required. While you can flip sprites, you may not rotate them. So an enemy such as the bone serpent in this future project, would require ALL of those frames, to be displayed correctly.:

Image

Damn! I can't wait until I start using mappers!

DragonDePlatino wrote:
As for your snake boss, my suggested approach is over on the left. You could have big 2x2 radially-symmetrical segments and then smaller 1x1 segments as you get closer to the tail. The head could be drawn using 8 minitiles so total, that's 11 minitiles for the entire boss...14 if you don't want your big segments to be radially symmetrical.


Oh!!! I didn't think of making it look like the serpent from StarTropics! Thanks for the suggestion!

DragonDePlatino wrote:
Oh, and sorry for the recoloring. I use a different NES palette than you with a lower contrast, so i had to swap the tiles to blue so I could edit them. I also probably missed a lot of tiles, so go ahead and check over them to see if you missed any symmetrical stuff.


Recolouring is fine. My stuff's generally pretty high contrast. I don't think I missed anything.
I also pruned down a few of the enemy/boss sprites, by trimming off extra tiles, and redrawing some parts.

On that subject, I completed the sprite re-palettes, to make them more readable on my dark backgrounds. How are these?

Image

I tossed some of them, onto the old mock-ups. To show the improvement. Better?
Image

EDIT: Ah crap, I just got called into work for a few hours. I'll work on this later, here's the snake so far, with your suggestion.

Image


Attachments:
CQ_8x8.chr [8 KiB]
Downloaded 67 times


Last edited by Alp on Sat May 21, 2016 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:39 pm 
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Awesome, awesome, awesome stuff! Everything in your mockups blend together so well and your atmospheres are great! Have you considered posting your stuff over on PixelJoint?

As for the character palettes, I think they look really nice! And if you're afraid of "blending into the crowd" with palettes like that, why not use the old palettes for the overworld and the new ones for dark areas like caves and dungeons?

Oh, and that newest mockup is looking very nice! Your mixture of gray and pink in your character palettes is a very bold choice I haven't seen before. One thing, though. I can't help but feel that using only 1x1 blocks for your walls looks a little plain. Why not throw some 2x1 blocks into those patterns and see how they look?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:19 pm 
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OneCrudeDude wrote:
Sik wrote:
The fact it looks like this just with NROM makes the original Legend of Zelda look notoriously bad.


It DOES look bad no matter what you compare it to. In fact, a lot of Nintendo's earlier titles didn't look very good, I don't think their art got better until, I think, Doki Doki Panic. I wonder what was responsible for everything looking blocky, possibly the fact they didn't have proper art software? I do remember reading that in the earlier days, people had to use LED panels to make up sprites, and some used graphing paper.


SMB had some bad color palette choices. I could never understand why they chose a purplish blue sky, or give mario a brown shirt. Even given the palette it has, there were some BG objects that could've had shading, but don't, such as trees, grass and those weird things in level 1-3, etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:55 pm 
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psycopathicteen wrote:
OneCrudeDude wrote:
Sik wrote:
The fact it looks like this just with NROM makes the original Legend of Zelda look notoriously bad.


It DOES look bad no matter what you compare it to. In fact, a lot of Nintendo's earlier titles didn't look very good, I don't think their art got better until, I think, Doki Doki Panic. I wonder what was responsible for everything looking blocky, possibly the fact they didn't have proper art software? I do remember reading that in the earlier days, people had to use LED panels to make up sprites, and some used graphing paper.


SMB had some bad color palette choices. I could never understand why they chose a purplish blue sky, or give mario a brown shirt. Even given the palette it has, there were some BG objects that could've had shading, but don't, such as trees, grass and those weird things in level 1-3, etc.

General inexperience with art assets, I'd assume. That or it was infeasible to have artists or art directors, so all of these early "NROM" graphics could easily be programmer art. I'd also appreciate if we could drop this silly notion that NROM games can't have decent graphics. :P

I can understand why they chose that sky color though; it didn't look purplish on their TVs when they chose it (nor does it look like that on any TV I've played it on). As for Mario's colors, Mario's colors were chosen based on function rather than design, and it's possible they went with brown because they thought blue wouldn't work well against the blue sky in most stages. Also, they frequently couldn't decide whether his shirt was red and his overalls were blue, or if his overalls were red and his shirt was blue.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:28 am 
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Yeah, that color is not purpleish on NTSC. Also his shirt is brown in order for his hair and moustache to have a decent color (although they didn't seem to care about that with Donkey Kong). But yeah, the art style could have been more consistent, it's a mix of flat, contoured flat and 3D-ish.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:54 pm 
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DragonDePlatino wrote:
Have you considered posting your stuff over on PixelJoint?

No. Absolutely not.
I have my reasons for avoiding that community.

DragonDePlatino wrote:
As for the character palettes, I think they look really nice! And if you're afraid of "blending into the crowd" with palettes like that, why not use the old palettes for the overworld and the new ones for dark areas like caves and dungeons?

Hmm... I may try that!

DragonDePlatino wrote:
Oh, and that newest mockup is looking very nice! Your mixture of gray and pink in your character palettes is a very bold choice I haven't seen before. One thing, though. I can't help but feel that using only 1x1 blocks for your walls looks a little plain. Why not throw some 2x1 blocks into those patterns and see how they look?

Those 2x1 blocks are the newest tiles for that set, I haven't decided on the mapping style for that project, yet. It'll be something along the lines of Knightmare II.

Hmm... While sorting BG tiles into metatile information, and creating a HEX reference grid, I noticed that 5 of the map tiles were redundant, if I assigned specific tiles into other sets. I used the extra space, to draw a cactus, and two graphics for bleached bones. The game now has a new locale!

Image


Last edited by Alp on Sat May 21, 2016 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:42 pm 
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Judging from the graphics, it looks like Cat Quest is trying to be the NES' Links Awakening. Not that it's a bad thing, I just wish the NES had games comparable to it.


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