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Opinions on my NES style game
http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12572
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Author:  krgr [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:22 am ]
Post subject:  Opinions on my NES style game

Hey. Been working away on a wee platformer thing using Construct 2. I have no coding skills whatsoever, I just enjoy messing with the oul' pixels. I love the look of NES games. Love all the blacks n' the chunky low resolution. I wanted to emulate that, but not stick 100% within the NES's limits. Was wondering what a group of NES experts thought of how my game's coming along so far. Any crits, comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Attachments:
player 1.gif
player 1.gif [ 9.08 KiB | Viewed 1897 times ]
climber5.gif
climber5.gif [ 1.76 MiB | Viewed 1897 times ]

Author:  thefox [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

Looks nice, and quite NES-like. I don't really have anything else to say about it, really. :)

Please use the forums image attachment feature to post images, so that they won't disappear together with your Dropbox account. (Is there any way that we could make it more obvious for users that they should use the image attachment feature rather than the [img] tag?)

Author:  tokumaru [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

Looks really cool! I don't see anything that immediately sticks out as not being possible on the NES, except for the lack of flicker from using such large sprites. Well, that and the debug HUD! =)

Its cool that you manged to make these detailed and expressive sprites without having to completely break the color limitation, like most pseudo-retro games do.

krgr wrote:
I wanted to emulate that, but not stick 100% within the NES's limits.

From what I can see, you're way closer to the NES than many other similar projects I've seen recently.

Keep us updated!

Author:  krgr [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

Thanks much for the replies. I sure will keep you updated!

The temptation to break the 4 colour sprite limit was so strong, but I managed to stick to it. His sword is an extra colour, but that's a separate sprite that I'll swap out for different weapons.

So I can actually just upload images to the site, eh? That's handy. I'll swap the image over then.

Author:  koitsu [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

Things that caught my attention, but these are all moot if you don't plan on "truly" sticking to the NES's limitations:

1. Large sprites (already discussed) -- may induce flicker
2. Torches -- probably would have to be sprites, which could induce further flicker
3. Background graphics -- very hard to tell, but some areas of the map look like they'd violate attribute table + nametable limitations.

Overall it looks more like an amalgamation of NES + SNES capabilities, which is perfectly fine. Shovel Knight, for example, falls under this category too. Nothing wrong with that in the least.

Looks great! Any chance this was inspired by TKGS? The "rising lava floor of doom" always makes me think of TKGS.

Author:  DragonDePlatino [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

Absolutely fantastic! The enormous, featureless eyes add a really unique look to your character designs. Your animations are quite smooth, but also have a little jerkiness to them to keep them from feeling too far from an NES game. Your dithering on the background details adds a really textured look, and your color choices are pretty great.

If I could offer up one piece of criticism, you might want to add a little more form to your arms and legs. Right now, I can't really tell where the limbs end and the hands/feet begin. Reworking the highlights and adding some highlights to the hair might help too.

Image

Author:  krgr [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

DragonDePlatino wrote:
Absolutely fantastic! The enormous, featureless eyes add a really unique look to your character designs. Your animations are quite smooth, but also have a little jerkiness to them to keep them from feeling too far from an NES game. Your dithering on the background details adds a really textured look, and your color choices are pretty great.

If I could offer up one piece of criticism, you might want to add a little more form to your arms and legs. Right now, I can't really tell where the limbs end and the hands/feet begin. Reworking the highlights and adding some highlights to the hair might help too.


I quite like the hands in your edit. Thanks. I'll give him a wee update. I'm still unsure about the backgrounds n' tiles. I think they might have too much detail in them. I'll see what solid colours to for me. Might look a bit rushed though. Hmm...

koitsu wrote:
Things that caught my attention, but these are all moot if you don't plan on "truly" sticking to the NES's limitations:

1. Large sprites (already discussed) -- may induce flicker
2. Torches -- probably would have to be sprites, which could induce further flicker
3. Background graphics -- very hard to tell, but some areas of the map look like they'd violate attribute table + nametable limitations.

Overall it looks more like an amalgamation of NES + SNES capabilities, which is perfectly fine. Shovel Knight, for example, falls under this category too. Nothing wrong with that in the least.

Looks great! Any chance this was inspired by TKGS? The "rising lava floor of doom" always makes me think of TKGS.


Aye, I'm sure I've gone way overboard with the tileset. I'm tinkering with adding in some parallax now. Which is breaking another NES limit I think, but it'll look so nice.
Hmm... never heard of TKGS before. Don't think I've ever even SEEN an Amiga before! It was just Nintendo n' SEGA for me growing up.

Author:  tokumaru [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

koitsu wrote:
The "rising lava floor of doom" always makes me think of TKGS.

To me it looks more like Hill Top's rising lava section, but I guess this is common enough in old games.

DragonDePlatino wrote:
Image

Nice changes! I particularly like the hair.

krgr wrote:
Aye, I'm sure I've gone way overboard with the tileset.

Which isn't necessarily breaking an NES rule... there's always the MMC5, which allows access to 16384 tiles at a time, and 8x8-pixel attribute areas.

Quote:
I'm tinkering with adding in some parallax now. Which is breaking another NES limit I think, but it'll look so nice.

This is usually the ultimate evidence that games aren't actually NES programs. Not that parallax is impossible on the NES (look at Sword Master, Metal Storm, Battletoads, Batman - Return of the Joker... the list goes on!), but there are very strict rules regarding what can or can't be done with an actual NES.

Author:  lidnariq [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

Single-direction parallax is mostly fine, just not full free two-dimensional scrolling¹.
As long as you can fit your entire set of parallax-ing tiles into just 64 tiles, and don't have more than ≈64 different scroll configurations that you want, that's a reasonable affordance for a NES game².

¹There's an old demonstration of full free two-dimensional scrolling I remember seeing on the forum, but only on 8x8 tiles. I can't find it right now...
²There's an incomplete homebrew game that supported full free two-dimensional scrolling... but it worked by having horizontal stripes of background vs foreground. Still looks nice.

Author:  tokumaru [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

There's also the fact that the foreground can't contain slopes or other complex shapes, or the places where background and foreground meet can look weird. The Battletoads example actually has a pretty complex foreground, but they compensate by making the background less detailed. The edges still look a little weird though. Battletoads also uses free two-dimensional scrolling, but the background pattern is small enough for it not to be a problem. And the game uses CHR-RAM, so it doesn't have to store all possible rotations of the background, they can be calculated in real time.

Author:  Sik [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

To be fair, many NES games avoided slopes altogether (because of the physics in general), but even then you can probably cheat by ensuring slopes are always in front of some foreground (effectively making them opaque like non-slope tiles).

Author:  tokumaru [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

Sik wrote:
you can probably cheat by ensuring slopes are always in front of some foreground

True, the important thing is to not have irregular shapes separating the parallax background and the foreground.

Author:  Jarhmander [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

lidnariq wrote:
...
¹There's an old demonstration of full free two-dimensional scrolling I remember seeing on the forum, but only on 8x8 tiles. I can't find it right now...

Is it this one?

Attachments:
test.nes [160.02 KiB]
Downloaded 95 times

Author:  lidnariq [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

No, it wasn't that one, although that one's very nice.

The one I was thinking of was a library of 64 banks of tiles where each bank contained one of the 64 different possible scroll offsets within a tile, so that e.g. going forward/backward one bank would cause the tile to rotate horizontally and going forward/backward eight banks would cause the title to rotate vertically.

Author:  hawken [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Opinions on my NES style game

This is looking very nice glad you ditched the black outlines.

Sik wrote:
To be fair, many NES games avoided slopes altogether (because of the physics in general), but even then you can probably cheat by ensuring slopes are always in front of some foreground (effectively making them opaque like non-slope tiles).


SMB3 was choc-full of slopes, Kirby too. Admittedly there was no paralax...

lidnariq wrote:
As long as you can fit your entire set of parallax-ing tiles into just 64 tiles, and don't have more than ≈64 different scroll configurations that you want, that's a reasonable affordance for a NES game².


Didn't the MMC3 do away with such small tile limits?

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