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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:01 pm 
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dougeff wrote:
Are you going to program it? Or just do the artwork?


Hell no, I am no programmer haha. I just don't ask anything from a coder until all artwork is done other than can this or can it not be done or is it too much of a hassle to do. I dont like programmers to be waiting around.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:31 pm 
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If you prefer to use GIMP or Photoshop, and you're willing to install Python (see Windows instructions) and use a command prompt, you could try the savtool program that I included with my graphics editor that runs directly on the NES. Give it a 256x240 pixel BMP/PNG and an NES palette specified as a hex string, and it converts the image to a .sav file containing the pattern table, nametable, and palette. You can then edit it further in the editor on the NES or just convert it back to a PNG to see where you broke the rules.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:08 pm 
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That won't work for me even if I tried :D I am still on Windows XP and running a 10 year old computer. so yeah... At least now I know the rules (I hope) and will be more thoughtful of designing my world.

_________________________________________________________________________________

So the design is more of a place holder. I already now know that this is too big and doesnt follow the 2x2 (16x16) rule that I've learned today because of this wonderful forum >_> on like where my other project is at. hover over the pic to see my notes.

Image

The idea here was the top right side where it says pos will tell you the city/town/shop (etc) Name. The X and Y was to give you the coordinates one the grid. The plan for the X and Y is to play with the day/night cycle for bounties. Would that be a problem? as far as X and Y? Im sure the name thing is fine and basic

The bottom right where it says RR I wanted the player to switch his party on the fly on the HUD but considering that this isnt the space I worked in. I will have to see what space I have in the actual restriction space so this may not work and I would have to make it for another tab "Party".

Other than that I am sure there is just too much information on one screen and I would have to break it down into tabs.

Will the icon pictures be sprite or BG?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:38 pm 
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Fjamesfernandez wrote:
Will the icon pictures be sprite or BG?
In this case, both. There are too many colors in a given tile, so one'd probably make the whites of the eyes sprites ... and maybe the shadows on the face. Or the red box, one or the other.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:50 pm 
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The Red, White, and Blue are already part of the BG color and the transparency is black so you don't have to count that, but spriting shades in sounds good.

Redesigning the HUD I seem to be stuck. Looking through references how is it that the NES FF7 remake breaks the 128x128 tiling? Because designing it on that size the text pretty much takes up a lot of the space. Unless its using that whole thing about increasing the size as long as all the tiles are the same. Then what size can I actually make the HUD?

Be these are the things that are so damn confusing.

Image

Edited it to where it falls in the 2x2 palette area.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:11 am 
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Fjamesfernandez wrote:
the 128x128 tiling?

What? Don't you mean 8x8? I think what you're trying to get at is who Final Fantasy uses proportional font vs. monospace, like this:

Image

You see, it may look like the proportional font isn't following the tile grid, but it is:

Attachment:
Tiled Proportional.png
Tiled Proportional.png [ 22.63 KiB | Viewed 854 times ]

I'm pretty sure the Final Fantasy games use something called CHR RAM that pretty much allows you to draw your own tiles instead of just looking through pre existing ones, hence RAM vs. ROM. In this picture, the text box is actually unique tiles throughout the whole thing, as in if the text box is 64 x 256 pixels, it's using 128 tiles, because (64/8) x (256/8) = 128. Basically, what's in the textbox is irrelevant. You could draw a picture of a smiley face over all the letters and it wouldn't make a difference. Just think of it as like Mario Paint.

And yes, this can be used for animation, because the text box is actually being animated, if that makes sense. Like I said, it's just like Mario Paint, except that the game is programed to only draw letters and numbers and the like.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:59 am 
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When I said 2x2 I meant for the bg palette radius of 16x16 (8,8,8,8). I'll just keep designing and stop worring about crap like that (some what). But with that said (excluding the text) everything is lined up.

Just don't get to tech on me. Speaking about ram, rom, chips and such, I will only follow what you are saying to a certain extent. Though it's not a waste of time because I know you guys are teaching me. Just take it easy haha.

I just want to know if I am doing everything that is needed to be done on the proper canvas size. If you are telling me you have 256 unique tiles that fits in a 128x128 (that's how I see it in Photoshop) where the four color palettes shared in the bg applies to every 4 tile radius... I would stick to that.

And I do understand if you want a small or big scrolling of the area (whether it's over head or side scroll don't remember the number radius for that if there is one) it has to share the same unique tiles that is loaded for the area (screen) until you zone out and load in another set.

So when I see huds bigger than the 128 rule it confuses me at times. Keep in mine this is all new to me :D I'm a pixel artist, yes but never sprited with so many rules haha.

So I guess one of the questions is if you are going to use the same unique tiles for that loaded area, how big of a radius can the player walk through. Sigh I'm sure I am wording it wrong and I guess it doesn't matter as long as you are designing with the same tiles for that area.

I'm asking so that I can have the idea on how the player would move around in a decent size are and not move block, load, block, load etc there should be a balance between the two. Knowing that I will be able to design the scenery better. I hope I'm making since.

Any way so yeah don't get too tech on me. That's how my other friend lost me while explaining things. So far you guys have been awesome and I want to let you know that I appreciate all the knowledge you guys/gals have been taking the time on giving me.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:56 am 
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Well, I know you said you don't really want to know about technical stuff yet, but just keep this one simple thing in mind: With rom, you can only load information from it, but with ram, you can not only load information from it, but you can store information in it during runtime.

I now know what you mean by 128 though. You're saying that all 256 8x8 tiles will fit in a 128x128 box, because (128/8) x (128/8) = 256
Fjamesfernandez wrote:
So I guess one of the questions is if you are going to use the same unique tiles for that loaded area, how big of a radius can the player walk through. Sigh I'm sure I am wording it wrong and I guess it doesn't matter as long as you are designing with the same tiles for that area.

The screen is 256x240 pixels large, so change tiles that often. Something called overscan can actually clip 8 pixels off the top and bottom of the screen for 256x224 pixels, so you might even be able to change tiles that often. Anyway, I'm going to work with 256x240 here.

I mean, look at this picture:

Attachment:
Changing Tiles.png
Changing Tiles.png [ 2.39 KiB | Viewed 840 times ]

Imagine the "1" tile takes the same spot as the "2" tile in the 128x128 are you're talking about. (it's the tile that's being changed.) Because the screen is 240 pixels tall, you want to have a 248 pixel space where none of them are being used. (the extra 8 pixels is because of scrolling.) Horizontally, it would be 256 + 8 = 264 pixels. The blue area is where it's safe to have the "1" tile, and the red are is where it's safe to have the "2" tile. When the screen is perfectly positioned in the purple area, that's when you switch the tiles. (they're completely out of sight. Going up will change it to "1", going down will change it to "2".) Of course, this means you gradually changing the tiles, not all of them all at once.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:12 am 
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Yeah its like the side scrolling games. While going side to side the far end "right" and far end "left" gets clipped to load in the design (I think i said that right) Its like making a triangle cutout on a cardboard paper then putting it over a passage on a book. as you are going left to right letters get clipped while from the left and loading new letters from the right and vise verse.

See its easier to visualize it on side scrollers games while I see things like zelda who uses over head but is always loading per box. That per box thing can get annoying at times, reason I said it should be a mix of scrolling bigger areas and loading block to block depending on the feel of the creator.

I know "Mother" (Mother's Map)does this with the over world. though its more over head scrolling and the only time it loads is when you go in a building or cave but how do you determine the size of something like that?

so back to the image (i know I have to make my edits :D) if I wanted this large area for the player to walk through without moving block to block just to get your scenery all cut out (yuck)

Image

and have the player move freely like this without loading until he goes into the cave or the bottom area to the new zone, but also keeping it where you fall under the BG palette groups.

Image

How do you know when too big is too big? I just may be overly thinking things. I must be annoying by now so I just want to apologize on my noobness .


_____________________________________________

Soon to be redone and fixed so it doesnt look so "tile-ish". I have to rethink this whole thing now with the whole grouping area for a darn palette(s).

Image

Quote:
If I recall, Shiru's BMP import will take the first 4 colours found (i.e. scanning left to right, top to bottom) and treat those as color 0,1,2,3 in the imported tile. I think I worked around this by placing 4 dots in the corner just to keep it from re-ordering the colours on me.


How so? I put the transparent - 3colors, transparent - 3colors, transparent - 3colors, transparent - 3colors,
but for some palette 0, 1, and 3 works. I tested 2 but its not changing anything.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:41 pm 
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Hope its okay to double post. Sorry for all the questions I didnt meant to drive people away :D Ill get it in time.

Image

Image

Though it was nice to have those colors, i dont see that working well down the line with 3 layers of color. That I am sure is going to cause issues if I decide to have his party members follow him or even during battle. He is one of the main characters. Took me a while to get my own style into it after researching and looking over many nes/snes RPG styled characters.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:05 pm 
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Looks good. Double post all you want...it's your thread.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:14 pm 
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I think this is closer to the original sprite, but it kind of looks like he's not wearing pants...

Attachment:
Recolored.png
Recolored.png [ 570 Bytes | Viewed 791 times ]


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:15 pm 
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dougeff wrote:
Looks good. Double post all you want...it's your thread.


Cool. I know know most forums don't like people doing that :D

Espozo wrote:
I think this is closer to the original sprite, but it kind of looks like he's not wearing pants...

Attachment:
Recolored.png


Yeah... Trust me i put that color before and thought the same thing. You did however created the pants. Forgot to put those two pixels on them >_> The all blue doesnt bother me too much. I can always change the original artwork to make it fit the sprite.

But yeah, those colors are so tempting but not worth the stress :D its all about sacrifices in the NES world. So im mixed between all blue or let him look like he isnt wearing pants :D First sprites always takes the longest for me to make. after that animating it would easy.

Oh quick question. while in the battle screen (turn base battle screen) is it possible to have a quick animation like in Ninja gaidens Cut scenes? and would that have to still share the unique tiles or some how make it load in? Nothing too lengthy may be like a few seconds.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:38 pm 
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Quote:
forums don't like people doing that


I think what people don't like is "bumping". That is, posting for the sake of keeping their topic at the top of the active topic list.

If you have something new to say, relevant to the topic, especially a new question, then I think it's ok. If people don't like it, they will just ignore you.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:42 pm 
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Quote:
it possible to have a quick animation like in Ninja gaidens Cut scenes?


Anything that an actual NES game did, is by definition possible to do in an NES game. Is it easy? No. Can you do it with 256 tiles? Yes, if you use flat anime style animation... Or keep the animation restricted to a 128x128 box in the middle of the screen.

Or, more cinematic... 256x64 with subtitles below.

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