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Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack
http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13831
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Author:  heardtheword [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

Not sure if this should go in graphics or dev forum.

I'm working on a Super Mario Bros. hack and would love feedback on the artwork and design. I want to give this to someone for their birthday in about 6 months.

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The bush and brick graphics are from DragonDePlatino's Mario mockup. I haven't replaced them yet...
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Here are some of the modifications I've made so far to the rom. I'm using ASM6 and the source is from someone's disassembly which has helped speed up the changes.

  • Changed from NROM to UNROM. I plan to use a full 16k bank for graphics and four banks for level data.
  • Loading levels from Tiled using RLE compression.
  • Two player mode is more fair now. The end of a level will switch players instead of letting them continue.
  • Removed lives counter. If you die, it starts back at the beginning of the level.
    Hopefully this allows the player to experience the full game without rage quitting.
  • Removed pipes, because they don't make sense. I plan to use doors instead.

There are plenty of things I haven't figured out design wise yet. I have several planned features that I haven't had the time to implement yet.

  • Library enemies: librarian that drops books (lakitu), bookworm
  • Tile animation
  • Different collectibles than coins and figure out what to do when you reach 100 (1-up no longer makes sense)
  • Load different graphics for each unique area. I can replace metatiles and palettes fairly easily.

Author:  darryl.revok [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

I like the addition of volume to the landscape in the animated gif, specifically the ground.

I don't get the same sense of volume from the pink picture though. It looks flat and has a lot of perspective issues.

Author:  dougeff [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

I agree a bit about the library. The platforms have this nice black shadow, but nothing else on screen has any shadows, and I wish they would, especially those book shelves.

Author:  heardtheword [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

I appreciate the critiques! I wasn't sure how to handle the bookshelves. The shelves were intended to be in the background so you know what you can actually step on.

Any help on the perspective issues? I'm primarily a programmer so my art skills are definitely lacking unless I can mimic other art. :)

Author:  darryl.revok [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

Quote:
Any help on the perspective issues?

Well, I think you have to be a little forgiving at times with the graphic limitations of a console like this, but the perspective on the bookshelf vs. the stairs is a huge clash for me.

The bookshelf extends into the Z-axis by moving downward at an angle and to the right. The stairs extend into the Z-axis by moving horizontally to the left.

I think the simplest way to address this is just to pick a consistent method of conveying three dimensional space and stick with that. If something extends into the background by angling down and right, then draw all objects the same way. There are more complicated things you could do where it would vary, for example, drawing with a 1-point perspective, but I think that would be more difficult, and would also make it harder to reuse tiles.

Personally, I don't think the back of the shelves should be pink. It really confuses what is on the wall behind and what is a foreground object. I had trouble figuring out what those were.

I could see using the background color for the stairs being a valid game design decision only if they are in the background and not interacted with. If your character can walk on those stairs then I strongly feel they should be a different color.

Author:  dougeff [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

Yeah...maybe flip the stairs horizontally, change the color on the white and pink part of the bookshelf, perhaps to the same color as the rest of the bookshelf.

Author:  heardtheword [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

I think I see what you mean by the bookshelf. Is the edit below better? The diamonds were too busy and it looks better with less. It's nice that the full bookcase become a foreground object.

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The stairs are meant to be in the background, without collisions. I added them because I felt like it made the upper section seem more like a second floor.

Author:  darryl.revok [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

It's looking better, for sure.

You might want to try editing the colors on the face of the book case so that you can reverse the color between book spines and the inside of the shelves. I feel like it would better differentiate the side of the book case from the face if the predominant color in the face was the dark brown. But maybe the biggest reason is just the fact that the exposed spines will get more light than the covered shelves. Likewise, the front of the shelves (the edges that are dark brown) would get more light exposure than the parts on the inside.

If the stairs aren't a part of the game environment then it makes sense that you made them blend into the background. The perspective is still backwards from the shelves though.

edit: minor typo. shelves to stairs

Author:  heardtheword [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

Thanks for the input! I would have stared at this for hours without knowing how to improve it. I changed the windows because I felt like they popped out too much for a background object. Although maybe it's too much white?

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Author:  dougeff [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

Why that particular color of orange ($26) for the windows and chairs?

I know you dont get alot of color choices, but try a different color.

Author:  heardtheword [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

Is it better if the carpet is brown orange and the windows/chairs are blue?

Author:  darryl.revok [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

Well, the thing I see now is that you added black accents to the faces of the bookcases, which is good, but now the sides lack pop by comparison. I would add probably a black background to the sides now, maybe some really minor black accents on some of the most defined edges, and I'd say that should just about finish those up.

Quote:
Although maybe it's too much white?

With the exceptions of the bookcases and ground, I'm not huge on the color choices overall. I didn't know if this could be based on a real pink library or if it's just my opinion. This is more subjective.

More objectively, consider the size of the door and chairs vs. the bookshelves. How large are those books? :)

Author:  dougeff [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

Quick photoshop color edit... ($13 or $23).

BTW, I think it's much better now. (Your versions)

(mine redacted, to reduce confusion).

Author:  heardtheword [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

The colors were randomly chosen by a programmer without color sense. Feel free to dash it to pieces. :D

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If I use the background color in the carpet it frees me up to use purple for the chairs/windows.

Quote:
More objectively, consider the size of the door and chairs vs. the bookshelves. How large are those books? :)


They are large tomes that take 4 librarians to move.

Author:  dougeff [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback Request: Super Mario Hack

Looks great, but I'd go with the last version of the book spines.


....you changed the picture on me...
Funny, I know I suggested $13 or $23, but now that I see it, I think blue was working better.

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