Re: Trying to teach myself pixel art
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:46 am
What a nice post you made just now.ClayAnderson wrote:Essay writing service reviews
NES Development and Strangulation Records message boards
What a nice post you made just now.ClayAnderson wrote:Essay writing service reviews
Marscaleb wrote:For such a simple and cartoony design, I would admonish you to avoid using black inside the tiles; only keep it as an outline; don't use it inside an object. The reason being, you want to establish a set of clearly-identifiable rules for how to read a scene. Everything that can block your path or that you can jump on ought to be instantly known just by looking at it.
I get what you're saying, and I've already taken some steps in that direction - that's why I took the black out of the hill pattern, and realigned it so the tops of hills are all light while the base is always dark - but I think removing the outlines entirely is a little extreme. More to the point, I don't think I could pull it off. Black outlines are my bread and butter, they're the first thing I draw and they make the colors play nice with each other.Marscaleb wrote:A game ought to have some clearly-different edges; the top of those hills ought to look noticeably different than the middles so that the top edge is clearly identifiable. The edge of the walls need to look clearly different so that they look like walls. This is a universal piece of advice for all games.
Since you are using an outline in your art style, you have a natural tool to use to distinguish boundaries for what the player can touch. As such, I would say to only use a black outline on objects the player can touch, and ALWAYS use it for objects the player can touch.
But you can achieve the same goal through other methods; you could use a distinct pattern on the edges you can touch, you could keep separate palettes for objects depending on if you can touch them, etc. There is a lot that you can do, but I advise you to pick something and keep to it.
Like this? It doesn't really look that great to me. The green only looks dark elsewhere because of context; next to the pale sky it doesn't really work as an outline.Marscaleb wrote:To that end, I suggest a slight revision to those bushes, which I would *assume* the player cannot stand on. Have their outline use the dark green (except maybe near the bottom) so that they don't "pop" out as much; make the background look different from the foreground.
You can indeed swim, though my water physics are pretty awful. But the top of the water isn't solid, and every other long, horizontal black line indicates something you can walk on. So I used white instead; it's a boundary, but not an obstacle.Marscaleb wrote:If you were able to swim, I would suggest having the top of the water have a black outline as well.
I don't lke the original dirt and grass, to be honest. The noisy look clashes with the rest of the style. And I tried putting patterns in the dirt but it looked even worse, so I just gave up and flood-filled it. Which doesn't look great either, but it works. There's nothing interesting in the dirt anyway, gameplay-wise.Marscaleb wrote:I like the dirt with the dots in it. It looks more interesting. The hills have this wavy pattern, the clouds have this curly pattern, the grass has a nice shaggy pattern, the bushes have a cresting pattern, but then the dirt is just a solid color? No-no-no-no, keep your art consistent. If you use just a solid color, use solid colors everywhere. If you put in little patterns, but in patterns everywhere. And the patterns look better IMO; more distinct and unique. The dirt and the water ought to have a pattern in them. (You can get away with the sky being a solid color though, because that's what sky looks like in real life.)
I like the simple dot pattern you were using; it is effective, makes it look like dirt, and matches the rest of your style. But if you don't like the simple dots, trade them up for something else. You could make a sharp zig-zag pattern or another waving pattern, and it could still look consistent with the rest of the style.
I didn't really have much of a style in mind when I started, and it shows. But the bold outlines, flat colors and stylised patterns I gravitated towards reminded me of Ukiyo-e, which I think would suit my apparently animé-esque character design tendencies.Marscaleb wrote:i like the more natural-looking grass pattern you use in the first picture, but the the more stylized-grass in the second one is okay too. As for which one looks better, that is really going to depend on how everything else looks. We're only staring at one screen. What does the rest of the level look like? If we come across a building what will that building look like? What about the inside? What about the next level?
If you want to split hairs about which looks better, the question is really going to be, which will better match the rest of the game's style. For my vote, I like the style indicated by the first image, but if it doesn't match everything else, then it won't work.
I don't have any ambitions of rotating things, but I've been meaning to check on that anyway. NTSC artifacts too. Maybe I should code an NTSC filter into my prototype. Or just hurry up and finish coding the NES version...tokumaru wrote:One thing I've recently started to consider very important is aspect ratio correction. Whenever you have things rotate, you need to see the graphics in the correct aspect ratio to be able to draw them consistently at different angles.
Agreed, that looks terrible. I'm sure you could keep the outside black but change the black on the inside to dark green and it would look better.Rahsennor wrote:Like this?
Why does everything need to be so formulaic?Rahsennor wrote:If you were able to swim, I would suggest having the top of the water have a black outline as well.
You said it, not me.Rahsennor wrote:But the bottom line is I really have no idea what I'm doing.
So would it be like this except with water at the bottom?Rahsennor wrote:One thing I really want to do is make some good waterfront cliffs. Rocky background, grassy surface on top, water at the bottom, and the odd waterfall in the background.
What are you shooting for in terms of the number of tiles? Good lucking rocks become very easy the more tiles you have.Rahsennor wrote:I just can't get a decent looking rock pattern. Or anything that isn't geometric, really. Any suggestions? How would you go about doing stylized rocks?
I was just thinking of that. Better?Espozo wrote:Agreed, that looks terrible. I'm sure you could keep the outside black but change the black on the inside to dark green and it would look better.
Marscaleb said that, not me. You put my name in your quote tags.Espozo wrote:Why does everything need to be so formulaic?
I was thinking something along the lines of this: Although given the NES palette limitations, the rocks would probably have to look more like this: (Excuse me posting crops of someone else's artwork; if that's not kosher let me know and I'll take them out.)Espozo wrote:So would it be like this except with water at the bottom?
I'm looking at NROM, so 256 tiles for the whole game. I'd like to have at least four different regions (plains, forest, coast, cave; that sort of thing), which would leave around 64 unique tiles per region. In other words, not many. Not that I'm going to be running out of tiles any time soon at this rate.Espozo wrote:What are you shooting for in terms of the number of tiles? Good lucking rocks become very easy the more tiles you have.
I like how you have just enough black to cover the attribute boundary. Excuse me while I take notes.Drag wrote:Just to throw an idea out there, here's an example of some textured grass that's stylized but not noisy. The rocky dirt in this example is just an idea for stylized dirt, it may not go with the scene. In either case, to draw rocky dirt, you can start with the light color and draw the outlines, but you can also start with the dark color, and draw rock-shaped blobs using the lighter color. Shadowing can be done by making lines in one direction really thick, and lines in the other directions really thin. In this case, the lines are all pretty thin, but diagonal down-right lines are erased.
You could hide an easter egg that way.Drag wrote:I think those bushes are fine with the same black outlines everything else has. You don't need visual cues for everything; in this case, context is what'll tell the players that the bushes aren't something you can stand on. After all, when do you ever stand on bushes?
I don't necessarily mean programmatical rotation, but even the length of a sword being held vertically should be adjusted when it's held horizontally. Being able to draw in the correct aspect ratio really helps with that. Preferably, the software should support proper rotation for aspect ratios other than 1:1 (Photoshop for example does), so you can rotate automatically to get the proper dimensions and clean up the result for the final sprite.Rahsennor wrote:I don't have any ambitions of rotating things, but I've been meaning to check on that anyway.
Oops... Yeah, that was an accident.Marscaleb said that, not me. You put my name in your quote tags.
I don't get that picure, is th rock wall a separate plane in front of the waterfall, or is it like an extension of the cliff side the waterfall is going down? If so, then water should be splashing up and poring down in places.I was thinking something along the lines of this:
Mario 3 uses a couple things.Rahsennor wrote: Take a look at Super Mario Bros. 3; it has a "simple and cartoony design" yet outlines absolutely everything. What rules would you say it uses? Serious question - whatever it does, it works, and I want to steal it.