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Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:07 am
by frantik
turboxray wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:18 am
And you're gonna have issues from CRT to CRT (not just red-push or not, but how people have settings adjusted). And there's still the same issue on LCD to LCD. Depending on the color, it could have issues there as well (PC-Engine 9bit color palette has a few problem colors like this, even on LCDs).
Yeah if people have their color settings all weird I'm not worried about that.. that's on them! But for people who spend time calibrating the color on their display it should look right. I mostly just wondered why there is such a difference in these specific colors and why they consistently look olive on newer displays/"accurate" emulators but seem to be brown on crts and on older emulators with hand selected palettes (based off crts). I at least sorta got an answer they they look that way on newer stuff but as always, the CRT color discussion is left to be a mystery to some degree

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 am
by Controllerhead
NTSC - Never The Same Color :roll:

It truly varies from screen to screen unfortunately. NTSC color burst interpretation seems to be more of a suggestion than an exact science. Ah, the good 'ol days. I have a TV where some of the purples ($03 / $13 / $23) are clearly blue.

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:03 am
by Zepper
Color $08 is NOT olive, since the color tones (or shades) have blue, a green value nearby the blue value, and high red.
I tested 3 NES palettes, and they don't bring blue (value $00). Red and green are very nearby, which doesn't match the olive tones.
Look at the image below.

Image

On the other hand, perhaps you find this info interesting too. It brings olive with no blue.
In a RGB color space, hex #808000 (also known as Olive, Heart Gold) is composed of 50.2% red, 50.2% green and 0% blue.
https://www.colorhexa.com/808000

Color $08 according to this site:
RGB #523000 color description : Very dark orange [Brown tone].

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:00 pm
by turboxray
Controllerhead wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 am
NTSC - Never The Same Color :roll:

It truly varies from screen to screen unfortunately. NTSC color burst interpretation seems to be more of a suggestion than an exact science. Ah, the good 'ol days. I have a TV where some of the purples ($03 / $13 / $23) are clearly blue.
Except composite video isn't broadcast 4.5mhz limited NTSC RF, and your experience with different TV sets being slight off in color, has nothing to do with the "Never the Same Color" joke. That's a different issue, it's not the 1960's and 70's anymore.

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:09 pm
by Bregalad
Controllerhead wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 am
NTSC - Never The Same Color :roll:
turboxray wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:00 pm
with the "Never the Same Color" joke.
The joke is actually Never Twice the Same Color.

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:58 pm
by frantik
Zepper wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:03 am
Color $08 according to this site:
RGB #523000 color description : Very dark orange [Brown tone].
according to which site? that color is much more what $08 looks like on my tv.. but every "accurate" emulator and lcd display includes way more green

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:40 pm
by Zepper
frantik wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:58 pm
Zepper wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:03 am
Color $08 according to this site:
RGB #523000 color description : Very dark orange [Brown tone].
according to which site? that color is much more what $08 looks like on my tv.. but every "accurate" emulator and lcd display includes way more green
Again?
https://www.colorhexa.com/808000

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:02 pm
by frantik
Zepper wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:40 pm
frantik wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:58 pm
Zepper wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:03 am
Color $08 according to this site:
RGB #523000 color description : Very dark orange [Brown tone].
according to which site? that color is much more what $08 looks like on my tv.. but every "accurate" emulator and lcd display includes way more green
Again?
https://www.colorhexa.com/808000
where are these RGB values coming from? Who says $08 is 523000? What does 808000 have to do with anything?

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:11 pm
by Zepper
frantik wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:02 pm
Zepper wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:40 pm
frantik wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:58 pm


according to which site? that color is much more what $08 looks like on my tv.. but every "accurate" emulator and lcd display includes way more green
Again?
https://www.colorhexa.com/808000
where are these RGB values coming from? Who says $08 is 523000? What does 808000 have to do with anything?
You're asking for OLIVE or BROWN, so here it is.
Such info is NO WAY a triplex for any of the RGB NES palette indexes.

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:16 pm
by lidnariq
Pedantry about the definitions of color terms is definitely off-topic. After all, we're trying to decipher NTSC, CRTs, and the 2A02, not the human eye and brain :P

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:39 pm
by frantik
lidnariq wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:16 pm
not the human eye and brain :P
you do bring up yet another layer of difficulty with color perception though... :twisted:

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:47 am
by bngrybt
Just in case you feel like being even more confused about the concept of brown...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh4aWZRtTwU

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:46 am
by Zepper
bngrybt wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:47 am
Just in case you feel like being even more confused about the concept of brown...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh4aWZRtTwU
Awesome!

Re: Is $08 "brown" or "olive" ? Why does it vary so much from screen to screen?

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:10 pm
by frantik
It seems like even various NTSC filters can't agree on this color.. in Mesen if you choose Blargg's NTSC filter, you will get more olive tones, while Bisqwit's is definitely brown. I feel like Bisqwit's is closer to my TV though the composite effect is really heavy handed. I went through various color options again and still settled on the same combo.

One thing I haven't seen any filters do is add the bloom and haloing you get from CRTs though that's completely separate issue

pic for reference.. the CRT is hard to photograph the brightness how it actually looked but the color tone comes out more or less correctly. Not even a hint of green in $08. The Blargg NTSC filter seems like it's used in Mesen and Fceux, if not others.

Untitled-15.png

and if you like Technology Connections and color, don't miss the RGB video