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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:56 am 
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YM2413 is widely avaliable and not that expensive to bother with fpga implementation.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:52 pm 
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Please note that the patch has reached version 1.01. Fixes, from the readme:

--Fixes issue where some characters (notably Tic) gained inappropriately high stats at level up
--Fixes issue where weapons of type Chemical, Special, and ???? displayed as Electric, Plasma, and Sonic respectively

Thanks folks!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:56 pm 
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80sFREAK wrote:
YM2413 is widely avaliable and not that expensive to bother with fpga implementation.

The hardware patches used in the VRC7 are very different than those in the YM2413, so it's not really very appropriate to use for Lagrange Point. If you're happy with the wrong sound, you might as well just do a simple FPGA implementation that plays the same tone for every patch.

I'm not going to speculate about how expensive/difficult it would be to add a YM2413 the PowerPak or Everdrive N8, but I doubt current owners of these would want to buy a new one just for a YM2413 (especially when it isn't going to make Lagrange Point sound correct).


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:24 am 
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But how different are they? Because if ultimately the underlying algorithms are similar then the point stands, it's still feasible.

Also gosh, we have an entire SNES in a FPGA, are we seriously arguing that a FM chip would not fit in a FPGA? I assume we're talking about small FPGAs because otherwise I don't see how it's a problem.

And I'd insist on just making it a separate add-on that connects in the expansion port, independent of the flashcarts (since you're already going to need a separate device anyway). I guess it's probably useless as-is if only one game ever makes use of it, but maybe later homebrew could make use of it if present (much like how Master System games can use either the PSG or the FM add-on).


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:42 am 
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Sik wrote:
a FM chip would not fit in a FPGA?
Not "a" FPGA.
The FPGA in the PowerPak, a Xilinx XC2S30.

I'm actually pretty certain it would fit, but you'd have to use the block RAM to hold everything, and implement everything as the ≈same state machine that's used in the original hardware. (After all, it only has one pair of lookup tables)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:02 pm 
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Sik wrote:
But how different are they? Because if ultimately the underlying algorithms are similar then the point stands, it's still feasible.

The algorithms are the same, VRC7 is a subset of YM2143. The problem is that the 15 built-in patches are custom for the VRC7. There's no way to modify a YM2413 to get those sounds.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:54 pm 
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rainwarrior wrote:
Sik wrote:
But how different are they? Because if ultimately the underlying algorithms are similar then the point stands, it's still feasible.

The algorithms are the same, VRC7 is a subset of YM2143. The problem is that the 15 built-in patches are custom for the VRC7. There's no way to modify a YM2413 to get those sounds.

I know, you are upset, but same question asked by another person. Do you have solid evidence such as photo of silicon or it is just your imagination?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:45 pm 
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Don't attribute emotions to me. That's very rude, and has nothing to do with this.


If you want to argue that the YM2413 and the VRC7 have the same internal patch set, you are just wrong, I'm sorry.

We do not currently have a decap picture of the VRC7, but this is most refined version of the internal patch set we have: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?t=9141

l_oliveira posted a side by side sound comparison from a YM2413 and VRC7 at some point, but I can't seem to find them at the moment. Edit: they are in this thread: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8833


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:02 pm 
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Just in case you want even more evidence that they're not the same patches: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13564742


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:59 pm 
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lidnariq wrote:
Just in case you want even more evidence that they're not the same patches: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13564742

...except that you need to create an account to even watch stuff on nicovideo...

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P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:10 pm 
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http://nicoviewer.net/sm13564742 , then. Or use youtube-dl, which has grown the ability to download from niconico without logging in.

I don't know why there is the abundance of web interfaces for niconico, and why the primary one still requires logging in...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:05 pm 
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I think Nico Nico Douga requires creating an account in order to build a foreign language wall to keep out filthy gaijin.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:20 pm 
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tepples wrote:
I think Nico Nico Douga requires creating an account in order to build a foreign language wall to keep out filthy gaijin.


Site is horrid slow anyway. I have an account there and normally can't even be arsed to log in because the videos take an ice age to load.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:05 pm 
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rainwarrior wrote:
Don't attribute emotions to me. That's very rude, and has nothing to do with this.


If you want to argue that the YM2413 and the VRC7 have the same internal patch set, you are just wrong, I'm sorry.

We do not currently have a decap picture of the VRC7, but this is most refined version of the internal patch set we have: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?t=9141

l_oliveira posted a side by side sound comparison from a YM2413 and VRC7 at some point, but I can't seem to find them at the moment. Edit: they are in this thread: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8833

Ok, but...

viewtopic.php?p=97361#p97361

i would prefer to hear opinion of Shiru or TmEE, until that happend VRC7=YM2413-rythms

Don't want any flame, but when you say "different", you should be more specific. Something like

patch #A instrument #1 YM2413.ogg
patch #A instrument #1 VRC7.ogg

added...


And i very doubt, there is any random factors


Last edited by 80sFREAK on Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:08 pm 
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What you asked for is exactly what he linked to.


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