It is currently Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:19 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 81 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 7417
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland
Quote:
I think in the case of Lagrange Point, though, the interview with Akio DOBASHI implies Konami knew right up front they wanted to use FM for the game music;

Oh thank you for pointhing that out. You know I don't speak japanese outside of a few isolated easy words...

Quote:
for example, "why does sprite zero need to overlap with an opaque background pixel to set the sprite zero hit flag? Why not just set the flag when sprite zero is fetched?"

This is a terrible example. Nobody outside of this forum would ever care about a detail like that, and the guy is retired and there is *zero* chance he would remember details like that.

Quote:
did anyone anticipate the advantage of being able to switch chr banks over spending cpu time filling vram

Again, terrible example. But considering how games in 1983 area were, the answer is most probably "no".


Quote:
Did anyone imagine a game like Castlevania 3 (Akumajou Densetsu) or Kirby's Adventure would be possible on Famicom, or did you only envision single-screen games for the platform?

This, however, is a very good question. I think everyone would care about the answer, as it's less technical and more general.

Quote:
've used many buildings have an elevator to go in and up, but the stairs are only to the outside. Any door to a stairwell automatically locks behind you. This allows a fire escape (or just convenient exit), but prevents people from entering a floor they don't have permission for via the stairwell. This is in combination with some sort of permission system for the elevator to get in, like keycards, or timed access. In practice, people may often leave the stairway doors propped open so they can get back in easily.

My god I can't belive anyone is stupid enough to build building like that. Sounds terribly inpractical and unsafe. What if there is an electricity shortage ? What if the elevators simply stop functionning for some random mechanical or electrical failure ?
As someone who almost never uses any elevator in my life, this is shocking. You know, we in europe know how to use energy only when it is really needed, and we don't waste megawats of electrical power or oil for nothing just because we're too lazy to use our feets, like north americans do. As for Japan, I have no idea which trend they're following.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 6208
Location: Canada
Bregalad wrote:
My god I can't belive anyone is stupid enough to build building like that. Sounds terribly inpractical and unsafe. What if there is an electricity shortage ? What if the elevators simply stop functionning for some random mechanical or electrical failure ?
As someone who almost never uses any elevator in my life, this is shocking. You know, we in europe know how to use energy only when it is really needed, and we don't waste megawats of electrical power or oil for nothing just because we're too lazy to use our feets, like north americans do. As for Japan, I have no idea which trend they're following.

I'm not an architect (and the subject if off topic for this forum, let alone this thread), but since I've lived and worked in buildings of this type, I can answer some of it:
1. There are always multiple elevators. In the case of a failure of a single elevator, a different one is used and the other gets put under repair quickly. Everybody complains about how slow the elevator is until it is fixed.
2. In the case of an emergency like a power failure, people can always get out through the stairwell, but again, it is likely that people will prop open or otherwise disable the locks on the doors to get in. Some buildings have systems that automatically unlock emergency doors in case of fire alarm, for example. Buildings are often equipped with a backup generator as well, so temporary power can be applied to an elevator in an emergency.
3. In a building with many floors, nobody would use the stairwell to enter the building. Are you going to tell me that in Switzerland men in suits climb the stairs to the 10th floor every day? There are alternative ways to get in for an emergency, but the elevator would be the normal method of entry even if the stairwell wasn't one-way locked.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 7417
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland
No, I'm just telling that buildings with more than 5 floors are rare here, and that anyways they always have non-emmergency stairs. Sure there is some (and even I would use elevator for more than 5 stairs), but they are rare. Even in a tall building, if you're on the 10th floor and if you just need to pass by the 9th floor, it seems terribly inneficient and slow to be forced to use an elevator to do that when you could use stairs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 6208
Location: Canada
If a company owns two consecutive floors of a building, I have seen internal stairs built through the floor to handle this case. If you want to spitball other hypothetical cases, there are likely practical solutions, but I'm only a person who has worked in more than one building like this. If you want insight into their design you really need to ask an architect.

I have no argument about whether it is a bad or good design, I've just been there, and it works well enough most of the time. I'd personally not prefer to be encumbered by stairwell limitations for the sake of security (much like I'd prefer not to be encumbered by a 10NES lockout chip) but in practice it has seemed OK to me. It's certainly a very common security design for tall buildings in North America, so it appears that many think it's a good implementation.

Anyhow, obviously it is very inconvenient in some cases. Shimomura's example that started this discussion is one such case.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 7417
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland
Yes, and if they'd have used stairs but some kind of security access door for the floors (which is common here) then Shimonura would have had the exact same problem anyways.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:28 pm
Posts: 3312
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Bregalad wrote:
Quote:
I think in the case of Lagrange Point, though, the interview with Akio DOBASHI implies Konami knew right up front they wanted to use FM for the game music;

Oh thank you for pointhing that out. You know I don't speak japanese outside of a few isolated easy words...

The Youtube video I linked of Akio DOBASHI has excellent English translations (click "CC" button at bottom of Youtube video bar). (I know, it's a bit confusing because some of the Red Bull Music Academy videos have embedded subtitles, while others don't)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Missouri
Bregalad wrote:
This, however, is a very good question. I think everyone would care about the answer, as it's less technical and more general.


And the answer would be interesting. The designers probably expected games to become marginally more complex, but not epic 20-hour monsters that scroll in 4 directions like Final Fantasy.

Maybe we should leave the sprite zero thing alone. They added a scanline counter with MMC3 and 5 (As with the Gameboy) so they surely realized how much it sucked.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:14 am
Posts: 268
strat wrote:
Did anyone imagine a game like Castlevania 3 (Akumajou Densetsu) or Kirby's Adventure would be possible on Famicom, or did you only envision single-screen games for the platform?


When the console was created, they were anticipating it being able to handle whatever was at the arcade, which most of the time were single screen games. However, because of the NES' ability to scroll, games were not limited to just single screen games. They probably were inspired by Mappy to include scrolling, which to my knowledge is the first (Japanese) video game to feature scrolling. Mappy came out the same year as the Famicom, so it probably wasn't a coincidence. There was also Defender before that, but I doubt that game was ever released in Japan. That said, games became more ambitious as the technology grew, and despite being CNROM games, Adventure Island and SMB have loads of content for such small games.

Jeez Louise, I apologize for making that statement to derail this thread to oblivion. What I actually meant to say was "if this game was another RPG with 2A03 music instead, no one would care for it". Literally the only reason people care about LP is because it uses the VRC7, had it used the stock audio hardware, it would've been overlooked and called "another RPG for the system, whoopee".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19936
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
So VRC7 audio is Lagrange Point's gimmick. Is Sunsoft 5B audio Gimmick's gimmick?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 6208
Location: Canada
Vanguard is a Japanese-made game that had scrolling (in many directions) in 1981, and Rally-X had scrolling in 1980, so there are certainly earlier scrolling games than Mappy, even if you limit to only Japanese ones. I have no idea what the earliest one was, but I don't really care either.

Gimmick is a very good game, and the soundtrack is still great in its 2A03 version too. It would still be worth playing if the 5B experiment hadn't been involved.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:43 am
Posts: 1589
OneCrudeDude wrote:
The NES came out in 1985, and the FDS which supported the expanded audio came out in 1986, which leads me to believe Nintendo saw it as a vestigial structure, and decided to remove it.

Er, it's likely that in 1985 Nintendo was already working on the FDS. In fact I imagine that's the very reason why the audio lines are there, can you imagine connecting an add-on through the frontloader slot? =P They probably wired the audio lines on the assumption only the disk drive would use them, only to find out everybody switched back to ROMs before the disk could be considered in the US at all in the first place.

If they really thought it was useless then it's likely the audio lines would not be there at all, not even in the expansion slot. This is what Sega did with the Master System after all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 7417
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland
Quote:
Jeez Louise, I apologize for making that statement to derail this thread to oblivion. What I actually meant to say was "if this game was another RPG with 2A03 music instead, no one would care for it". Literally the only reason people care about LP is because it uses the VRC7, had it used the stock audio hardware, it would've been overlooked and called "another RPG for the system, whoopee".

It's funny because you are probably absolutely right, but I haven't even realized that yet.

It's also one of the very few Konami's RPG before Suikoden. (the other 2 games which use VRC6 audio being the other 2)

I think it's interesting because those games doesn't have the "Konami" feeling all their NES titles have. The pause sound effect is absent, and so is their special sprite flickering pattern. They don't sound like other Konami NES games who have a particular sound to them, but the reason why is obvious ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:44 pm
Posts: 939
Location: Japan
Plus Lagrange Point was produced as part of a project with Famicom Magazine where readers submitted their own story/enemy ideas and designs, which got used in the game.

I have LP, and some of the songs are good, but much of it is totally wasted potential. Especially considering some of the fantastic OPL music in some MSX games.

_________________
http://www.chrismcovell.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:07 pm
Posts: 18
Bregalad wrote:
It's also one of the very few Konami's RPG before Suikoden. (the other 2 games which use VRC6 audio being the other 2)


You're forgetting Madara 2 on the SNES. Also Cave Noire on GB, which admittedly is more of a roguelike, but still.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:48 pm
Posts: 553
You should be getting paid for this. I totally see this restolen by Konami and sold as some sort of "Virtual Console" thing. Is money just not your thing; or do you not like assumed financial pressures?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 81 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group