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Need input for view logic for Dodgeball
http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=16230
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Author:  tschak909 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

I took a moment to think out a version of Dodgeball for the NES/FC.

And while I would be very excited for being able to actually do a game where you have 6 characters on either side of a playfield, with the playfield working in the fashion of Ice Hockey, I am actually a bit confused on one very important aspect:

How would the scroll logic work?

Specifically, Where should you scroll?

In games like Ice Hockey, and the like, you have ONE BALL, and the current players clustered around that ball, this makes the scroll logic much easier to implement, but in Dodgeball, would I simply scroll to encompass both selected players on screen, and only select players visible within the scroll window?

Just curious, as I scribble down notes. I tend not to embark on projects until I have a rock solid idea of the entirety of the game in my head, and right now that's Wizard of Wor...but I do find the idea of doing Dodgeball in the style of the classic NES launch titles appealing (just as Dodgeball on the VCS was done like a 2K launch title with a two line kernel)

-Thom

Author:  rainwarrior [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

I'd assume you know about Super Dodge Ball, but if not it's probably worth looking at for comparison.

I'm sure the first thing I'd try is just scrolling with the ball, maybe with an arrow to indicate the vertical position of an offscreen controlled player?

A trickier idea might include a "mini map" like Defender, showing the players and balls as dots on a miniature version of the field in the status bar.

Author:  gauauu [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

The trick is that most dodgeball rules include lots of balls going at once. If that's the case, it becomes trickier. (But how does one player even manage that? Maybe it should be a game for the multi-tap)

Author:  tschak909 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

Well, in 1-2 player mode:

With six metasprites on each side:

B selects player
A throws

any player not selected takes on AI to throw at nearest opposing player.

no?

-Thom

Author:  rainwarrior [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

If the ball is moving left (or the player is about to throw left) you could also bias the scroll toward that direction.

For multiball I'd probably just accept the compromise of averaging the ball camera targets, even though that might result in one or all balls offscreen... but I'd also try to make the game controls/feedback such that it's possible to control adequately even if the player isn't onscreen. Sound effects, offscreen-arrows, a mini-map, players selection controls that still work OK "blind", etc. could all help in this regard.

For things like this I generally find that it's hard to choose until you protoype multiple behaviours to compare and test.

Author:  tschak909 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

I needed a tiny respite from grinding through the score output code, and did a quick conversion and touch-up of the ADAA logo for the middle of the Dodgeball court, looks GREAT in multiple background colors!

Image
Image
Image
Image

-Thom

Author:  DRW [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

rainwarrior wrote:
I'd assume you know about Super Dodge Ball, but if not it's probably worth looking at for comparison.

That game only has the boring version of Dodgeball.

The good kind of the sport is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT47KfDlwI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4QqksHXUCc

Averaging the scrolling position can be problematic. If two players of opposing teams have a ball each and they are at the far end of their respective sides, you have none of them on the screen.

I would go for something like this instead:
Attachment:
Kings of the Beach - Professional Beach Volleyball.png
Kings of the Beach - Professional Beach Volleyball.png [ 3.6 KiB | Viewed 807 times ]

Also, you might choose to cut down the number of players and balls from six to four or else the playfield might be filled up too much.

Author:  DRW [ Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

Oh, by the way: I'm not sure whether you should actually use the name ADAA. I mean, it's a fictitious organization of the movie anyway, so you can just as well invent your own league. Otherwise, it might be problematic if you ever intend to sell the game.

Unless of course you're actually going for a game based on the movie, i.e. where you can play with Average Joes and the final opponents are the Purple Cobras.
But I would advise against that. A Dodgeball game with multiple balls is a pretty novel concept. I would create this as a general sports title, not as a movie conversion. This way, it's really your intellectual property and you can sell this as a game that stands on its own.

Author:  tepples [ Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

If you plan to present dodgeball as a legitimate sport, I'd recommend basing the court dimensions and rules on one of the recognized dodgeball codes. For example, the USA has a National Dodgeball League, and its rules specify a court 60 by 30 feet in size, the same as that of a volleyball court.
(Source: "Dodgeball" on Wikipedia)

Useless trivia: National Dodgeball League and National Diet Library (Japan's counterpart to the Library of Congress) share initials, and National Diet Library is the only library known to Wikipedia's "authority control" template to recognize dodgeball as a distinct subject.

Author:  Sumez [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

DRW wrote:
rainwarrior wrote:
I'd assume you know about Super Dodge Ball, but if not it's probably worth looking at for comparison.

That game only has the boring version of Dodgeball.

The good kind of the sport is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT47KfDlwI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4QqksHXUCc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDbymcJuipA

Author:  DRW [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

Erm, yes? What do you want to tell us by quoting my post and then linking to another one-ball-version of the game?

Author:  Sumez [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

Just stating that the sequels to the game are a lot less boring, and it's a good source of inspiration if you want to make your dodgeball game more fun.

Author:  DRW [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

Despite the flashy moves, it's still the plain one ball version of the game. I don't think that the original poster had any generic problems with making the game fun. It was more the technical question how you coordinate a six ball game.

Author:  Sumez [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need input for view logic for Dodgeball

Aha. It definitely wasn't clear that you were referring to the number of balls in play by linking videos from the movie Dodgeball.
It seemed like you were just advocating for the game to be more silly and flashy.

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