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 Post subject: Re: Project: Knil
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:52 pm 
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My idea for the design thing is make it so they have the ice option before the fire, and always having it to get out of the situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Project: Knil
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Awesome to see your project is alive and well. Looking pretty awesome too!

Quote:
This will prevent you from losing progress if you get stuck. The inventory screen also has a RESET option.

Personally, I don't like the idea of players getting "stuck" and forced to reset the game. It reminds me of those Mario hacks that force you to die if you go the wrong way. It seems like bad design. Am I being overly critical? Thoughts?

I think it depends on the nature of the game and how well it is understood by the player that situations like that are supposed to exist. Lolo for example devotes the select button to committing suicide if you're stuck. However games like mario/zelda usually don't put you in a situation like that. The fact that you've put 'RESET' in the menu helps the user know it might be of use to 'give up' if you get stuck helps a little. You don't want the player wondering if it was intentionally designed that way, or if it was just poorly designed IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Project: Knil
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:27 am 
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Wow, this project looks amazing! Keep up the good work!

I think in the example above I wouldn't worry too much. The player has to intentionally get themselves stuck. I think the emergent game play that comes from non-linearity makes up for any rough edges it may cause.


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 Post subject: Re: Project: Knil
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:01 pm 
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SoleGooseProductions mentioned two possible solutions:

1. save a "start" point when the player steps onto ice and return the player there if they fall into the cold water
2. have the ice sink if the player is standing on a single square


The first works nicely, since the game already has a "safe" area mechanic for falling into holes. I think I'll keep track of two: one for most current area, the other for the most current non-destructible area. The game would fall back to the second one if the first is a metatile that causes damage.

I also like the second idea and I think some interesting things could be done with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Project: Knil
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:29 pm 
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Quote:
1. save a "start" point when the player steps onto ice and return the player there if they fall into the cold water

Breaks if there's an island anywhere. Step on island which is not ice. Burn all ice around island.
"Make it so they can't burn ice while standing on land."
And so the quest begins...

Unless non destructible areas are set by you and not actually whether or not a tile is destructible. In which case, an island would be marked destructible. Or just have no islands surrounded by ice. :(
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2. have the ice sink if the player is standing on a single square

This is good, as long as the lighter is infinite. If not, you may run out before you can make yourself stand on just one block.

But if walking in the water will eventually kill you, and killing you sends you someplace safe I see no reason to even do this. Forcing the player to kill themselves works, and maybe they'll learn something. :lol: Making a single square of ice sink is basically forcing the player to kill themselves, anyway. (They have to burn all ice around to grant themselves death.)

Cases like this is what makes game design "fun". If it were me, I'm not sure how hard I'd try to protect a player TRYING to get themselves stuck. Golden Sun will start you at a safe point instead of your last position after loading the save if you hold a button combination while loading. Your game puts you at a safe place when loading automatically. With a fail safe like that, I'd do whatever and worry less.

It's even possible to get stuck in "simpler" games (as far as fancy things the player can do) like Pokemon. I don't see it as bad design, if someone has to go far out of their way to make it happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Project: Knil
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:42 am 
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I can get myself stuck in SMB a number of ways :)


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