Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Discussion of development of software for any "obsolete" computer or video game system.
lidnariq
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by lidnariq » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:30 pm

Try using your soundcard as an oscilloscope. It might help narrow down what's going wrong.

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TmEE
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by TmEE » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:40 pm

Do controllers work properly in both controller ports ? Many MD models develop cracked solders at the controller ports, causing all sort of headache...

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nintendo2600
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by nintendo2600 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:52 pm

TmEE wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:40 pm
Do controllers work properly in both controller ports ? Many MD models develop cracked solders at the controller ports, causing all sort of headache...
Yep they work properly. I considered that as well.

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nintendo2600
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by nintendo2600 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:33 pm

Here it is with all new through hole parts. Still nothing. I'm really at a loss. I wish I could find someone electronically inclined who also owned one of these guns. You guys have been great helping based on theory and what should work in practice and I thank you for it. The only thing that is original on the pcb right now is the photo sensor but I have tried 2 others. I'm leaving this one on it for now as I do believe the sensor works based on previous testing.
DSCF0347.JPG
I'm gonna put this aside for now I think. Not very often I call it quits on something but I really don't know what else I can do at this point.

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nintendo2600
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by nintendo2600 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:29 pm

OK so now I'm finding out that ALG used a different hit detection method than Konami did for their gun games and
hardware. Still I would think this homebrew test program should work as it's for all 3 kinds of lightguns but I'm still rolling snakeyes
with this POS I have here..lol..

http://gendev.spritesmind.net/files/md/ ... r_v1.0.zip

I contacted the author of that program to see if he has any further information on this matter.

Related link to the test program:

https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthrea ... elp-wanted

Related link to info about GAMEGUN's supposed universal compatibility that is slowing showing to be false:

https://segaretro.org/GameGun

Youtube video of a guy using this gun with ALG games working and then he tries Lethal Enforcers 2 and it doesn't work at all.
The video isn't in english but that really doesn't matter, just what he's testing. It's near the end of the video where he tries
out lethal enforcers 2 on the Sega CD. I linked the video around the right time. Man o man this is turning out to be an expensive
debunking of internet rumor. Guess I'm taking one for the team on this one.

https://youtu.be/WKW15tYooTM?t=2124

Odd how this is all working out.

lidnariq
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by lidnariq » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:36 pm

Do try using your soundcard as an oscilloscope. It's not great - it's low bandwidth, and there's drastic filtering, but it really should show if the signal is coming through.

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nintendo2600
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by nintendo2600 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:25 pm

I'm just gonna covert this to a player 2 "pink" justifier gun I think. Clearly after all this testing and research the American Laser Games GAMEGUN is not compatible with justifier or menacer games at all. I'm happy this is now at least "out there" to discredit the rumors and false claims that it could. Also thanks to that one fella on youtube for posting the video testing all the ALG games and the Lethal Enforcers game at the same time showing first hand it will not work.

lidnariq
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by lidnariq » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:27 pm

That's really weird. There's nothing obvious about the schematic that would make it obviously incompatible with both the Justifier and Menacer - there just aren't that many ways for a lightgun to work, given that the Genesis only supports "capture" on the TH pin.

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nintendo2600
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by nintendo2600 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:33 pm

lidnariq wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:27 pm
That's really weird. There's nothing obvious about the schematic that would make it obviously incompatible with both the Justifier and Menacer - there just aren't that many ways for a lightgun to work, given that the Genesis only supports "capture" on the TH pin.
I was told that the LM311 leans to it not being able to be compatible with the Justifier as it is an analog chip? As for the menacer part, at this point I'm just so worn out over this I'd rather just be happy with the information gained from this venture and turn it into something I can actually use like a P2 gun as I'll play the hell out of Leathal Enforcers long before I buy another Sega CD unit or play those couple FMV games that ALG did. :)

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nintendo2600
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by nintendo2600 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:19 pm

Does anyone here know of a proper solution to replace the light sensor for the Justifier guns? I've been told it could very well
be a custom part that is actually a phototransistor with a built in amp? I have tried many different phototransitors that have been suggested
to me and I also built one amp circuit as well so I can list what DOES NOT work from my experience so far:

LM741 op amp ciruit with a tept5600 series sensor, 1meg resistor in parallel with a 22pf cap & 2k variable resistor does not work.
I believe the LM741 being only 1Mhz could be an issue and it was metntioend to me that it could need an op amp upwards of 10mhz.
I'm not sure about that nor do I know the right part to make such a circuit with.

L14G1 and it's sub flavors of phototransistors do not work

TSL252R do not work

TSL235R do not work

So folks, anyone got a solution to this? Would be nice to have the information posted openly on the interwebs for all to see and use.
You would think this would have been sorted and shared 20 years ago but it has not :(

lidnariq
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by lidnariq » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:20 am

I think everyone on this forum reads all the fora; there doesn't really seem to be any use in repeating yourself.

I'd help if I could, but at this point one needs the combination of a Genesis, an oscilloscope, and any of the relevant guns to figure out what's going wrong.

The only thing that's absolutely certain is that the way the Genesis receives input from the lightguns, which is extremely similar to how the SNES does: one pin changing on one controller can cause the VDP/PPU to latch the current X/Y coordinate at the moment it changes.

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TmEE
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by TmEE » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:28 am

...And also cause level 2 interrupt for the CPU. The TH pin (7) on the controller port does that on high to low transition. The only thing that can create that transition is the comparator etc. in the gun and when its output isn't doing it the problem is either the comparator itself or its input isn't right for it to trigger state change on the output. Oscilloscope would help a lot to figure out where exactly the problem is, or might be the only thing that can.

FrankWDoom
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Re: Hardware test program for Genesis Justifier, Menacer and\or ALG GAMEGUN?

Post by FrankWDoom » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:40 am

Way late to the party but did you ever try the gamegun with an ALG game? I had never heard it suggested it worked with anything but that line before this thread.

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