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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:00 pm 
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Are there any NameTable editors for consoles in this list?

This may be used in Shiru's next official release of Screen Tool, But remove ''NES'' From the full name. NES Nametables can be kept of course.

-------------------------------------------------

SNES: all modes

GameBoy: Mono and Color only, no support for advance.

VGA and Mono PC Textmodes with 8x16 Font support

Sega 1000 and compatible, MasterSystem, GameGear and MD/GEN mode

Open Source as always

EDIT - The reason I had PC Textmode in there is because most if not all editors require a package that I still cannot download with windows. (The QT Programming Package is too big)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:37 pm 
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I don't think there is real need in specialized nametable editors for 16-bit consoles like SNES and MD, because they have larger palettes and smaller attributes, it is easier to make and use automatic converters.

There were some tools for TMS9918-based systems (MSX, Coleco, SG-1000), including online tools. They mostly came from MSX scene. Can't recall all of them, here is a recent graphics editor.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:48 pm 
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Shiru wrote:
I don't think there is real need in specialized nametable editors for 16-bit consoles like SNES and MD, because they have larger palettes and smaller attributes, it is easier to make and use automatic converters.

There were some tools for TMS9918-based systems (MSX, Coleco, SG-1000), including online tools. They mostly came from MSX scene. Can't recall all of them, here is a recent graphics editor.


I guess I will have to do no development on most of these,

And that is only an Image editor, but not a Name Table editor.

Sorry to say this, but my SMB1 port is canceled!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:05 pm 
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There are ports of SMB1 for almost every system you listed - SNES, MSX and Master System (Zemina's Super Boy), and Genesis. There are SMB games for GameBoy and VGA PC (an unofficial one) as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:13 pm 
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SMB for VGA PC is called LoopyNES. It's also Nesticle x.xx because despite its inaccuracy, it's good enough to run SMB correctly.

SMB Deluxe is Color-only and will not run on Game Boy, Super Game Boy, or Game Boy Pocket.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:25 pm 
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There are many map editors available that have customizable output, such as Tiled or Open tUME. You could use those to export data for whatever platform you need.

You can also write your own map editor. Or write a program that analyses a BMP, where the colour of a pixel corresponds to the appropriate tile. Then you can use a simple paint program as your map editor.

...but if you're writing a port, why do you need a level editor at all? Why not just use the level data from the original ROM?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:00 pm 
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Why do people assume that I need a map editor?

I was mainly making remakes to SNES and PCE, and maybe a SMW hack after, but there is no way to make my own nametables.

What I am talking is the format of the 8x8 Tiles and Attributes for such formats, They do differ.

This is not really a rushed thread, But one question remains, If there are no other formats besides NES supported, Why even bother?

And yes, I can still disassemble 6502 quite well.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:25 pm 
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A "name table" on the NES is more generically called a "map", at least where I come from. What, in your mind, distinguishes a name table editor from a map editor?

Certainly, any generic (2D tile-based) map editor worth its salt could support laying out 8x8 tiles and specifying attributes.

But, moreover, what name tables does SMB "have" that aren't derived from the level data itself?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:53 pm 
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adam_smasher wrote:
A "name table" on the NES is more generically called a "map", at least where I come from. What, in your mind, distinguishes a name table editor from a map editor?

Certainly, any generic (2D tile-based) map editor worth its salt could support laying out 8x8 tiles and specifying attributes.

But, moreover, what name tables does SMB "have" that aren't derived from the level data itself?


Nametable is formatted in such a way to build screens, or in most cases Status bars, Cutscenes and Dialog/Text.

Maps, on the other hand, Require Metatiles that are then put on top of the name table.

Metatiles also handle Properties and Attributes for a Metatile as well as Collision for Sprites!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:25 pm 
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I see. As I said, virtually any map builder doubles as a name table builder, because a map is just a generalization of a name table: what is a name table if not a map of a specific size with 1x1 metatiles and some hardware specific attributes?

So I suspect you could very easily use Open tUME or Tiled as a "name table" builder for those other consoles, the only

But SMB is not exactly abundant, as far as I can see, in name table data that isn't either text, dynamically generated (numbers), or the result of drawing level data. The title screen, maybe?

It should be easy enough to generate the data you need by hand or algorithmically.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:54 am 
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adam_smasher wrote:
I see. As I said, virtually any map builder doubles as a name table builder, because a map is just a generalization of a name table: what is a name table if not a map of a specific size with 1x1 metatiles and some hardware specific attributes?

So I suspect you could very easily use Open tUME or Tiled as a "name table" builder for those other consoles, the only

But SMB is not exactly abundant, as far as I can see, in name table data that isn't either text, dynamically generated (numbers), or the result of drawing level data. The title screen, maybe?

It should be easy enough to generate the data you need by hand or algorithmically.


I guess it can be considered a TILEMAP, so you're right for the most part!

Nametables (like Pattern tables) is actually a segment in VRAM that does screen works by rendering.

I use Nametable Tools like Shiru's or YY's, But one is for Gameboy-like format and one for NES, I do not like making attributes with characters next to them like in SNES or Sega systems by hand in big amounts, Ick!

Generators are only for images, even then, Duplicated 8x8 tiles do not really appeal to me!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:59 am 
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There is no problem to automatically remove duplicated tiles from a converted image. So you can have your map as a huge image, converter then will find unique tiles and create a map in needed format, with metatiles or whatever.

Honestly, I don't really understand your problem. Making a port of SMB1 is way more difficult than making a nametable editor, and basically you always need to make some custom tools for development for old platforms. So, if lack of ready made tool could stop you, I don't see how you going to accomplish your goal.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:43 am 
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Shiru wrote:
I don't see how you going to accomplish your goal.

He NEVER does. For years he has been asking for the craziest stuff in order to make the craziest games, but he has never come remotely close to finishing any of them.

Hamtaro126, stop blaming the (lack of?) tools. You are always asking (some times you actually DEMAND stuff, like if other had any obligation to accommodate your craziness) for ridiculous stuff, for projects that most of the time aren't even interesting for anyone else. You seem to have some decent technical knowledge, why won't you apply it on something meaningful that can actually be completed?

Hamtaro126 wrote:
Sorry to say this, but my SMB1 port is canceled!

Is that a threat? I don't think anyone really cares, we can all play SMB just fine now.

EDIT: BTW, why is a name table editor so important? Most of the game's graphics are generated by the game engine dynamically, not prepared by the programmer. That code will have to be modified for every system you want the game to run on... I really don't see why the lack of a name table editor is a deal breaker for you.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:26 pm 
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This is going to become a flamefest, And yes, I am to blame.

The problem is that I was up all night, Was not even thinking very good!

I will actually focus on something else, and hope to not do this again.

Tokumaru: More apologies for the threat, I actually had a problem controlling my own self yesterday.

I now promise that If I do this again I will start by explaining my forum violations to an admin, with permission to punish myself as needed next time.

(Feel Free to Close this thread, as it is irrelevant)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:30 pm 
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Instead, I'd prefer to make a heroic attempt to swing it back onto topic. If that doesn't work, the alternative is standing by: Image

There exist plenty of generic map editors. They work for any game whose underlying world model is essentially a 2D array: the converter just has to understand the compression scheme that the game engine uses. They don't work for games that have an object-based world model like SMB series, where a converter would have a much harder time recognizing arbitrarily placed objects optimally.


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