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 Post subject: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:57 am 
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For those who've missed it; there was a small SuperGrafx demo released recently by the group punkfloyd. ROM and youtube link can be found here.


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Location: Denine's Devil Mansion
I was never interested in SuperGrafx prgramming, but list of features sounds nice. Maybe, when I'll get enough of NES.
Oh, question. How effect of the robot is done? (2:00 on Youtube). I mean: It have only 2 layers of background. One is the text, I think. Can TurboGrafx to manipulate the screen to leave robot (the middle of screen) and do some efects on the sides?(Resizing the columns). Or is it done by using GFX changes?(don't look like it, though).
Overall: I liked this. Seems to be something between NES and SNES, my next retro platform to do programming for.


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:45 pm 
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SuperGrafx has two sprite layers, each one can cover up full screen width with sprite graphics.


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:49 pm 
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If you want between NES and Super NES, then I'd guess a lot more Genesis consoles were sold than SuperGrafx consoles. This means more people will have nostalgia for the platform, and you'll have a larger market if you plan to sell your work on a cartridge.


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:55 pm 
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The SuperGrafx is extremely niche. Very few consoles were produced and sold. Something like 6 games exist for the platform. If you want something that's more capable than NES, the regular PC-Engine/TurboGrafx16, Genesis, and SNES come to mind. The Genesis and SNES are far more available everywhere than the PC-Engine. The SNES has pretty good cloned units available. The Genesis clone units are not as good.


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Shiru wrote:
SuperGrafx has two sprite layers, each one can cover up full screen width with sprite graphics.

So it were sprites, neat. :D
Quote:
If you want between NES and Super NES, then I'd guess a lot more Genesis consoles were sold than SuperGrafx consoles. This means more people will have nostalgia for the platform, and you'll have a larger market if you plan to sell your work on a cartridge.

But I'm not after selling my work. None will buy it anyway. I just want something that allow me for a little more freedom with backgrounds and sprites limit(8 sprites per line is SO annoying).
Quote:
The SuperGrafx is extremely niche. Very few consoles were produced and sold. Something like 6 games exist for the platform.

That's...really rare. If that's the case, I'll better drop the idea.
Quote:
If you want something that's more capable than NES, the regular PC-Engine/TurboGrafx16, Genesis, and SNES come to mind. The Genesis and SNES are far more available everywhere than the PC-Engine. The SNES has pretty good cloned units available. The Genesis clone units are not as good.

If I ever will leave NES grounds, I'll go with Genesis or SNES. PC engine sounds interesting, but it have only one BG layer.
Anyway, thanks for tips, guys! I really appreciate it. :D


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:33 pm 
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The popularity of a platform is something I take into consideration before developing any serious interest in its architecture. I mean, I do have a general interest for retro hardware, and I often read documents describing the capabilities of even the most obscure gaming consoles, but I would never consider developing for one that didn't still have plenty of working units or a moderately sized fanbase.

To me it's mandatory that I own the hardware I'm developing for, I could never trust emulators alone. And when I finally release a game I'll surely want more than 8 people worldwide playing it!


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Tokumaru, you hit the nail on the head. Except for last part. I own a famiclone, but have no way to test my programs\hacks. But, of course, ask people who can to check it for me.
Well, I'm not really in position to say that, though. I released only one, poor NES game...


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:49 pm 
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I didn't even know this system existed.
I can see how the single background layer of the TG16 would have been a killer.

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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:14 am 
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Obscure, yes. Don't know if I'd call it rare.
You can pick up SuperGrafx systems in fairly good condition for about $150. Of course, you'd have to settle for an NTSC unit. But still, it's not a Vectrex we're talking about. Hell, even the Sega 32X - another failed piece of hardware, but one I'd still assume more people in the western world to be familiar with - will fetch prices in that neighborhood these days.

Still, I have no plans to get one myself. I already have a TurboGrafx, and I'd rather upgrade to a Turbo Duo (CD-ROM support) than a SuperGrafx. But it's nice to see people developing stuff for these largely forgotten systems.


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:27 am 
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Dwedit wrote:
I didn't even know this system existed.
I can see how the single background layer of the TG16 would have been a killer.


Actually due to the very large sprites I guess on TG16, many games look as though they have two background layers at times. Lords of Thunder on the Super CD-ROM for PC-Engine does this. I've heard before the reason there was only 1 background layer may have been so you could access VRAM at any time, not just during VBlank. I'm not sure if this is true but I'd think having to obey your standard VBlank/VRAM write rules and having a second background layer would have been more helpful, although maybe that would have risen the price due to the additional VRAM you may have wanted/needed.


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 Post subject: TG16 sprite limit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:38 am 
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Shiru wrote:
SuperGrafx has two sprite layers, each one can cover up full screen width with sprite graphics.

An NES has 64 pixels of sprites per scanline, a Genesis 256 or 320 depending on the chosen dot clock, and a Super NES 272. Are you saying a regular TG16 has 256 pixels of sprites in 256px mode or more in higher res modes?


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:43 am 
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256 sprite pixels per scanline for each of two layers, 512 sprite pixels per scanline total.


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Shiru wrote:
256 sprite pixels per scanline for each of two layers, 512 sprite pixels per scanline total.

So you can pretty much fake a second BG layer and still have 256 pixels of sprites for actual moving objects? Are there any games that do this? All games I've seen appeared to have a single BG layer.


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 Post subject: Re: New SuperGrafx demo
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Like it was said above, there was about 6 games released for the system. Didn't check them to see if they fake a second layer specifically, but if they don't, I think it is just because developers were just starting to utilize potential of the system and didn't have chance to do it to full extent.


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