3DNes

Discuss emulation of the Nintendo Entertainment System and Famicom.

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Zepper
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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by Zepper » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:26 pm

I don't mind about videos, but if it's working or not here.
It is NOT. 8-)

geod
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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by geod » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:13 pm

Agree sir. It is not IN MANY CASES:D.
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zeroone
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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by zeroone » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:04 am

How does the emulator figure out what parts of the image to render in 3D? For instance, see this segment of the map from Castlevania:

http://www.nesmaps.com/maps/Castlevania ... 7bMap.html

The blue background tiles look almost identical to the orange floor tiles. What algorithm could automatically tell the difference?

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tokumaru
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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by tokumaru » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:14 am

Blue tiles are more numerous? Sprites are constantly placed in front of them?

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zeroone
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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by zeroone » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:25 am

tokumaru wrote:Blue tiles are more numerous? Sprites are constantly placed in front of them?
The videos do not suggest that the emulator learns during game play. It's not like it starts out as 2D and it slowly figures out what to pop out into 3D.

As for where sprites can go, bats, ghosts, player weapons, enemy projectiles, items, etc. move over solid wall blocks. And, the player can jump upwards through blocks to climb; blocks only become solid again when you land.

One possible explanation is that the emulator contains a tile table for all the common games, providing hints on how to display the tiles.

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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by tokumaru » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:51 am

zeroone wrote:One possible explanation is that the emulator contains a tile table for all the common games, providing hints on how to display the tiles.
I remember the developer saying he didn't use databases, just heuristics. I don't know if that has changed between then and now.

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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by Ryoga » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:43 am

Very impressive work!. :beer:
The rendering mechanism is not just based on 8x8 tile, but based on "shape" - meaningful collection of consecutive tiles. Shape recognition - like any recognition problem - is hard and does not have an ultimate answer. On Nes System fortunately we can choose color pattern as the main factor for shape clustering, it works for 90% case. It's still an open problem for improvement through. Consequently an 2D tile is not always mapping to an "3D tile", for example an 2D solid tile can be used in the introduction cube at the begin of SMB, but also be used in grass or cloud. The corresponding 3d tile in each case is completely different. The original code only allowed one 2d tile to be mapped to one 3d tile. For the current code one 2d tile is technically allowed to be mapped to many 3d tile but still be mapped to only one 3d tile. That's why you see some small strange detail in grass, in pipe etc. I could tack it earlier of course, but it would affect greatly on emulation speed so instead i went for the missing aspect (light, shadow, adequate sound quality) first then performance re-optimization. Right now i'm ready to return to 3d convert problem.
Wow. That sounds pretty good. Only heuristics?. I've seen some videos and I think the result might improve if you apply some sort of machine learning algorithms although I understand that at this stage of development may be more convenient to improve the heuristics. In any case the result is impressive. I hope to see further progress soon.

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Zepper
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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by Zepper » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:54 pm

geod wrote:Agree sir. It is not IN MANY CASES:D.
Just to be crystal clear. The online version has problemas, it's not loading anything or working here. I really want to try out this emulator, and I can't wait for the "offline" version of it. ^_^;;

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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by mkwong98 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:01 pm

Ryoga wrote:Wow. That sounds pretty good. Only heuristics?. I've seen some videos and I think the result might improve if you apply some sort of machine learning algorithms although I understand that at this stage of development may be more convenient to improve the heuristics. In any case the result is impressive. I hope to see further progress soon.
One important factor of machine learning algorithms is to define what is good and what is bad, and that is very difficult to do in this case.

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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by geod » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:40 am

Because many people said that this emulator may contain some kind of database for specific games, i would like to ask if there is a general method to know which game it is from a random input rom? :) I don't know if this kind of method exist. Thank you.
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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by ninjis » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:19 am

geod wrote:Because many people said that this emulator may contain some kind of database for specific games, i would like to ask if there is a general method to know which game it is from a random input rom? :) I don't know if this kind of method exist. Thank you.
You would use something like NesCartDB and use the check-sum of the rom to determine what game was loaded.

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Re: 3D Nes Emulator

Post by lidnariq » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:57 am

Or use the database that comes with Nestopia

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Re: 3DNes

Post by tepples » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:28 am

You've got competition. Someone else is working on a 3D NES emulator that runs The Legend of Zelda in first-person view.

Source: YouTube, via Twitter

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Re: 3DNes

Post by geod » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:50 am

I almost believe that this is a serious work until i read some user comments - i suck hard at English, especially English listening :D . By the way how does he do all the video drawing in this clip? That's just amazing!!!
Last edited by geod on Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3DNes

Post by zeroone » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:18 am

tepples wrote:You've got competition. Someone else is working on a 3D NES emulator that runs The Legend of Zelda in first-person view.

Source: YouTube, via Twitter
In that link, the author provides some information on how his algorithm works out which blocks to make into 3D. It's still unclear what process 3DNes uses. Is it possible to do this without pre-constructing a tile table for each game ahead of time?

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