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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:39 am 
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Thank you for Unlimited Sprites option)


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:35 pm 
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Location: Brazil
Alexxx wrote:
Thank you for Unlimited Sprites option)

Still limited up to 64 sprites.


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 6:04 am 
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VS games like VS SUPER MARIO BROS have wrong colors in punes but are ok in other emulators.


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:23 am 
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puNES doesn't even implement the VS System's coin drops or dip switches, nevermind supporting the alternate PPUs.


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:57 am 
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that is a good point, I wasn't thinking lol


I just discovered puNES and got excited.



Nice emulator.


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:06 am 
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Display setting 8:7 NTSC looks like 4:3 and should be labled as 4:3 no??

8:7 would be more narrow. and is the internal nintendo processing size.


anyway setting to 8:7 results in 4:3 output.


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:46 am 
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Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
8:7 is the pixel aspect ratio; 4:3 is the display aspect ratio. There's a difference.

The NES picture is 280x240 pixels, including 24 pixels of side borders usually hidden in the overscan. Because of the 8:7 PAR, 280 pixels across is the same length as 280*8/7 = 320 scanline heights, for a display aspect ratio of 320:240 = 4:3.


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 10:29 pm 
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Is there any option for exclusive fullscreen? I use a G-Sync monitor and this emulator doesn't seem to be compatible, it stutters when G-Sync is active, even if i try to add it to the 3D settings via nVidia control panel.


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:18 pm 
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I am wondering about the Resolution.

in 8:7 Mode which i guess is the TV default, it's 292x240.
However in higher resolution, Scale 4x it's 1170x960, which isn't the same aspect ratio.

Shouldn't it be 1168x960?


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:22 pm 
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256 pixels horizontal × 8/7 pixel aspect ratio × 4 scaling ratio = 1170.29… pixels


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:35 pm 
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lidnariq wrote:
256 pixels horizontal × 8/7 pixel aspect ratio × 4 scaling ratio = 1170.29… pixels


Oh, i thought it worked like normal ratios, just you know, multiply by X.

But, why does it work like that?
Doesn't that mean that the image will become wider or taller the bigger it is?
Like, the Width and Height will go apart.


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:44 pm 
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Vertically one doesn't multiply it by the pixel aspect ratio, so it's just 240 vertical pixels × 4 pixels out per pixel in = 960 vertical pixels out.

256÷240×8÷7 = 1.21̅9̅0̅4̅7̅6̅ (ideal)
1170÷960 = 1.21875 (can't practically have fractional pixels on screen)
1168÷960 = 1.216̅ (rounding too early)
1.219048… - 1.216̅ = .00238…

Can you perceive a 0.24% error? (I can't)

Anyway, this small amount of error is just due to rounding early.


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:14 pm 
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lidnariq wrote:
Vertically one doesn't multiply it by the pixel aspect ratio, so it's just 240 vertical pixels × 4 pixels out per pixel in = 960 vertical pixels out.

256÷240×8÷7 = 1.21̅9̅0̅4̅7̅6̅ (ideal)
1170÷960 = 1.21875 (can't practically have fractional pixels on screen)
1168÷960 = 1.216̅ (rounding too early)
1.219048… - 1.216̅ = .00238…

Can you perceive a 0.24% error? (I can't)

Anyway, this small amount of error is just due to rounding early.


Hmm, i get the fractional pixels part, which is why i find it confusing.
But i think one mentioned something like this before, it was with SNES, he said something like.

"If you want it to be Pixel Accurate, it needs to be scaled to blalba (some Really high resolution)".
I didn't get why i though, why not just multiple the original?
But i guess it's cause of this, the rounding errors occur until you reach eventually it's perfect at some point, then it starts over again i guess.

EDIT:

And well i can perceive 0.24% if i compared them, anyone can, cause 1 pixel can become 2 making text weird.
That being said, as much as i hate inaccurate pixels, if i don't compare them, i by no means can just point it out in a blindtest, (randomly, i mean if i know how it's supposed to look, then i can).


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 1:16 am 
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zerowalker wrote:
But i guess it's cause of this, the rounding errors occur until you reach eventually it's perfect at some point, then it starts over again i guess.
Yup.

The intersection of the pixel aspect ratio with the pixel count means that you could get big chunky pixels with the right aspect ratio by scaling it horizontally by 8, and vertically by 7 (because each pixel should be 8/7 times as wide as tall). This huge 2048x1680 pixel image would ... well, both have the right pixel aspect as well as super-sharp pixels. But it turns out that's really even vaguely like what SDTV CRTs actually do, and therefore not what the game designers saw or drew at the time either.

Best practice seems to be to scale up the original 256x240 by some integer ratio using nearest-neighbor (for chunky pixels), and then stretch horizontally using some smooth interpolator instead; this way we can get something that's the right aspect ratio, AND doesn't look like mud (unlike pure bilinear interpolation). It's even vaguely related to what a TV's analog video path did, too.


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 Post subject: Re: puNES Emulator
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 5:25 am 
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Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
zerowalker wrote:
And well i can perceive 0.24% if i compared them, anyone can, cause 1 pixel can become 2 making text weird.

That's an issue not of pixel aspect ratio but of poor interpolation. It'll be a lot harder to perceive if you're using bilinear interpolation or the so-called fractional bilinear interpolation, a way of doing the equivalent of what lidnariq mentioned in a pixel shader.

But if you're concerned about rounding error, the other way to achieve proper PAR is to pad the picture to 280x240 and then stretch it to any multiple of 320x240. This 280x240 frame includes side borders that the NES PPU generates but which are hard to see on 1980s CRT TVs.


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