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Progress Thread - Lala the Magical
http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=14589
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Author:  thefox [ Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

I don't think it's a problem. I actually kind of like quirks like that where the styles clash (this is NES, after all).

Author:  Bregalad [ Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

This looks like a very cool game !

Author:  Banshaku [ Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

The new sprite looks a lot better! Like it.

Author:  DRW [ Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

na_th_an wrote:
Is this such an issue? I never read anybody complain that Link has pink hair in a Link to the Past or that the sprite is drawn in SD style instead of being tall and stylized. He also looks 5 years old ingame.

The pink hair is indeed a strange issue. And a total exception, by the way. This was never done again with any "Zelda" game, as far as I remember.

Also, I'm not talking about the graphics style. I'm talking about actual properties of the character.

Yes, I'm aware that artwork and sprite style often clashes. Like with "Layla":
Attachment:
Layla.png
Layla.png [ 117.42 KiB | Viewed 1761 times ]


But the difference is: You still see that this is Layla. She has the bangs, the leotard and her backpack.

Same with Link: He might be drawn in a cuter style than in the artworks, but you still see that it's Link.

"Pokémon" does the same, showing Ash/Red in his original artwork first and transforming him into the small sprite. But the basic properties are still there.

Your character on the other hand could just as well be a completely different person:
The clothes don't match. They don't even come close.
The sprite has no feminine proportions, despite the fact that you went out of your way to design the artwork as fanservice.

There's just a total disharmony between artwork and sprite. That sprite, that's not the sexy witch from the artwork. That's a possible companion of Little Nemo.

Please understand that I'm not saying that the sprite is bad in itself. If this was supposed to be Lala's little sister, I wouldn't have said anything.
I'm just saying that it doesn't live up to what the artwork implies.

Simple character design is not really an excuse. You know what game also has simple character design? "Donkey Kong". And yet, if you have a look at the original artworks and then at the sprites, you have no problems accepting that the Pauline sprite is actually a legitimate representation of her drawing.

So, this is not about different graphics styles or about different levels of detail. This is about the game showing a blue robot with an arm cannon while the artwork shows some guy in a yellow-blue suit with a gun in his hand. Only that in your case it's the other way around (i.e. the artwork is better than the sprite) and your yellow-blue suit is a baby's romper suit.

In the end, it's your decision after all, though. I just wanted to voice my concerns.

Author:  tepples [ Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

At least Lala doesn't look this different:
Attachment:
lolo3lala.png
lolo3lala.png [ 322 Bytes | Viewed 1755 times ]

Source

Author:  Bregalad [ Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

Wow, Layla is cute ! So far I just played the game but didn't see any artwork.

Author:  tomaitheous [ Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

DRW: "And?" meaning it's a non starter for an issue. It's just an issue with you. This is the NES. This type of stuff is the norm, if you haven't noticed. I'm willing to bet your pet peeve is in the vast minority. Style/substance.. it's all subjective. I see no problem with it. Fits the era of the console. Moving on..

I was going to ask for the source, but then I saw that you guys are the original crew who did the game (I was thinking of a port to another system).

Author:  Myask [ Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

I knd of agree it seems disparate, after Yun having a very close agreement between the small sprite and large (even if not in proportion/palette, which, yes, is fine/due to system limits)

tomaitheous wrote:
DRW: "And?" meaning it's a non starter for an issue. It's just an issue with you. This is the NES. This type of stuff is the norm, if you haven't noticed. I'm willing to bet your pet peeve is in the vast minority.

Of expressed opinions,
Difference matters: banshaku, tepples, DRW, Myask, [Alp, inferred by showing a fix]
"Game looks good" dougeff, Bregalad
The difference is's fine: tomaitheous, the_fox

It's disingenuous to call about half the commenters in the thread a "vast minority", or to call it "your pet peeve"…especially when DRW wasn't even the one to bring it up first.

But yes, generally the game looks good, and this issue's not going to make it a bad game for me by any stretch of the imagination.

Author:  tomaitheous [ Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

Myask: I wasn't referring to the opinions of this forum. I was referring to retro gamers that enjoy 8bit era NES stuffs.

Author:  DRW [ Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

tomaitheous wrote:
This type of stuff is the norm, if you haven't noticed.

Alright, please name me a few NES games that have this kind of discrepancy.

Author:  Light-Dark [ Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

DRW wrote:
tomaitheous wrote:
This type of stuff is the norm, if you haven't noticed.

Alright, please name me a few NES games that have this kind of discrepancy.


Man its just an NES game made for fun for a competition.

Personally I am of the belief it is up to the individual to decide of their own free will what they wish to do (keeping in mind the consequences of their actions). In this case I believe the art is acceptable for my standards and the standards of the majority of the market (the community).

Na_th_an: Your game looks fantastic keep up the great work man. A 1000x better than anything I could ever produce artistically :lol: :beer:

Author:  DRW [ Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

Light-Dark wrote:
Man its just an NES game made for fun for a competition.

And my words are just some posts in a forum. Everybody is free to ignore them. It's not like I continued posting without people answering my posts. I never spammed this thread. After my original post, I only answered statements that were directed towards me, didn't I?

Light-Dark wrote:
Personally I am of the belief it is up to the individual to decide of their own free will what they wish to do (keeping in mind the consequences of their actions).

Sure. I mean, I didn't force anybody to do anything. Furthermore, I didn't continue the conversation until somebody explicitly spoke to me. So, what exactly is your problem with my posts again?

If you don't like my opinion, don't quote me and I won't continue writing in this thread. It's as easy as that.

Author:  rainwarrior [ Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

DRW wrote:
If you don't like my opinion, don't quote me and I won't continue writing in this thread. It's as easy as that.

No, it's not as easy as that. That's stupid. "If you stop arguing with me, I'll stop arguing with you."

If you say something that bothers someone, they shouldn't leave it unchallenged. They should respond. It's like you're threatening to make a mess if anyone doesn't let you just say whatever you want.

Author:  DRW [ Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

rainwarrior wrote:
If you say something that bothers someone, they shouldn't leave it unchallenged. They should respond.

Sure, that's all good and well. What I meant was: They shouldn't respond if they have a problem with me responding.

As far as I can see, Light-Dark doesn't just have a problem with my opinion. He has a problem that I state my opinion.

The following is not a problem for me:
Person 1: "I think that A is true because of B."
Person 2: "That's stupid. A is clearly false because of C."
Person 1: "C is nonsense. Have you ever considered D?"
Person 2: "Sure, but D is disproven by E."

That's all good and well. Both sides embrace the discussion.

It only becomes a problem when one of these persons says:
"Dammit, stop it already. This topic is a nitpicky issue anyway."

Somebody can argue with me all day, I have no problem with that. People can disagree with me and state their opinion as much as they want. It only becomes a problem when they complain about the act of discussion itself.

There's a difference between "I think you're wrong and here is why" and "I think you're wrong and you should stop stating your opinion since this discussion gets on my nerves."

The first of these two is what you described: Someone disagrees and so he feels the urge to tell me.

The second thing is what I desribed: After my initial post, I don't write anything unless someone reponds to it. As long as someone responds to it, I will answer if I feel like it.
If he doesn't just have a problem with my opinion, but with the very fact of me writing an answer at all, then he needs to stop discussing.

People need to decide:
Do they want to argue with me (i.e. do they have a problem with my opinion)? Then they should accept that I argue back.
Or don't they want this argument to go on (i.e. do they have a problem with the very concept of a discussion)? Then maybe they shouldn't argue themselves.

You cannot post an argument and then demand that the discussion is stopped and that your argument is the last word.

You see the difference?

Author:  rainwarrior [ Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Lala the Magical

I do see the distinction you're trying to make. Here's a distinction I'd like to make:

If I you were to suggest something about a game, and instead of engaging you in an argument about whether that suggestion is true or not, I said instead:

"You're making suggestions rudely, and it's making this conversation unpleasant."

Such a statement is still relevant to the thread and discussion, even though it's not the argument you wanted to have. Maybe the conversation isn't about who had the last word, but whether those involved are enjoying it or getting anything useful out of it? In this view, saying "I'll shut up if you will" is probably not an appropriate response.

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