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Progress thread: Inherent Smile
http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=16802
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Author:  FrankenGraphics [ Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

I think that table looks great Dougeff! Really helps depth and therefore orientation

Author:  lidnariq [ Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Quickly playing around with mesen (it'll let me hot-patch the table while the game runs!), I tried a table of the form 79·10/(n+10) and I think it makes motion a little more fluid ... but it also clearly shows some cylindrical distortion.

edit: explicitly spelling out what that means:
Code:
4F 48 42 3D 38 35 31 2E 2C 2A 28 26 24 22 21 20
1E 1D 1C 1B 1A 19 19 18 17 17 16 15 15 14 14 13
13 12 12 12 11 11 10 10 10 0F 0F 0F 0F 0E 0E 0E
0E 0D 0D 0D 0D 0D 0C 0C 0C 0C 0C 0B 0B 0B 0B 0B
0B 0B 0A 0A 0A 0A 0A 0A 0A 0A 09 09 09 09 09 09
09 09 09 08 08 08 08 08 08 08 08 08 08 08 08 08
07 07 07 07 07 07 07 07 07 07 07 07 07 07 07 07


I'd previously tried smaller offsets than 10 but found that, even if they looked accurate, they made all the rooms look HUGE.

edit2: you can think of the parameters in the equation a·b÷(n+b) that a is "how tall in pixels is the wall when I'm as close as I can get" and b as "the closest I can get"

edit3: For distances less than 26, the original data in the game is pretty close to a=79 and b=40.
For distances less than 22, dougeff's curve is close to a=93 and b=15.
For distances less than 40, Frankengraphics's curve below is close to a=90 and b=12.

Author:  tokumaru [ Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

lidnariq wrote:
Quickly playing around with mesen (it'll let me hot-patch the table while the game runs!)

FCEUX allows live editing too, just write or paste the new data in the hex editor.

Author:  FrankenGraphics [ Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Yeah i use fceux for that sort of thing, too. Very useful for a/b testing physics quickly - and optics too, it would seem!

I tried to do it from scratch as well. After a couple of hours of testing in varying sizes of corridors and halls, i found this to work best for me in regards to depth and rotation overall. I find it interesting that it came up so close to dougeff:s attempt in close-quarter distances. It seems there isn't much leeway here if you want clear depth separation.

The far-away three fourths on the other hand got pretty different, and this was very conscious as otherwise i found the view started warping (zoom out in the middle of the view a lot as you rotaded in larger halls across faraway corners and doorways) or outright disappear as if it was much further away than it was.

Pretty satisfied with it with this ski slope curve. It definitely shifted my usage from the minimap (which i now only glance at in intervals for treasure hints at this point) to the main screen for orienting.

Code:
4F 4F 4F 4B 48 44 3F 3C
38 35 32 2F 2C 2A 29 28
27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20
1F 1E 1D 1C 1B 1A 19 19
18 18 17 17 16 16 15 15
14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11
10 10 0F 0F 0E 0E 0E 0D
0D 0D 0C 0C 0C 0B 0B 0B
0A 0A 0A 09 09 09 08 08
08 07 07 07 06 06 06 06
05 05 05 05 05 04 04 04
04 04 03 03 03 03 03 03
02 02 02 02 02 02 02 01
01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01


Attachments:
distant_surfaces_look_ok.png
distant_surfaces_look_ok.png [ 2.02 KiB | Viewed 2086 times ]

Author:  calima [ Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Will try these soon. In the meanwhile, here's a ROM that runs on hardware, with the more optimized nmi code. Thanks to gauauu for testing.

Attachments:
InherentSmile.nes.gz [31.11 KiB]
Downloaded 83 times

Author:  calima [ Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

I like Franken's table. ROM with that.

Attachments:
InherentSmile.nes.gz [31.1 KiB]
Downloaded 168 times

Author:  tokumaru [ Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Wow, that is indeed much better! Things still become wider as you get closer, and I can't figure out why... but the sense of depth is MUCH improved, so that's great!

Author:  team_disposable [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

I've been playing this most of the morning and its been destroying my work ethic. Great game, quite tough though with some very high powered enemies early on. I got the silver sword and thought could finally get some payback on those rats but nope - maybe next time!

One thing to comment on - the death sound - it sounds more like a level up. Some blissful ascension in to the heavens, perhaps?

Author:  lidnariq [ Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Tiny little graphics glitch I just noticed: when I have the poisnspear or khalif equipped, during combat, in the follow-through after an attack, the spear head becomes replaced with leek leaves.

Author:  calima [ Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Do you mean the slash frames? There wasn't chr space to have unique attack animations, so every weapon uses the same slash. The color doesn't change according to the weapon either, it's always green.

Attachments:
pic.png
pic.png [ 1.12 KiB | Viewed 1856 times ]

Author:  calima [ Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

I guess you mean this frame, it's also part of the slash.

Attachments:
pic.png
pic.png [ 1.15 KiB | Viewed 1855 times ]

Author:  lidnariq [ Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Yup, that.

Author:  lidnariq [ Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Any chance I could get some gameplay advice?
I keep on encountering enemies that are higher level than I appear to be able to deal with. What am I doing wrong?

Author:  calima [ Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

- try to master the action button for attack/defense
- remember to equip better armor and weapons
- in particular, seek out armor and spells

Other than that, the balancing is bad, as we ran out of time really. It's quite possible to finish it, but the difficulty rises too fast.

edit: Oh, and a common thing in these dungeon/maze games: draw maps and keep track of what is where.

Author:  FrankenGraphics [ Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

That frame there looks off because the weapon is missing. It wasn't planned like that but in the end there was too little ROM/too much content to fit everything, not least animations and features tied to them... most notably the boss which is on strike. There are quite some quite rough cuts.

Tips on playing: Go fast, try not to wait around too much. There's a timer increasing the difficulty. What i usually do is get all the gear on the lower end of the map as quick as possible, then dash for the exit. If i happen upon an enemy that is too good for my current gear, i just run. HP is restored between fights so potions are only needed in battle emergencies.

It's admittedly a too hard for me as well, but that has got me to the end at least once. Only way i know of is to just dash to chests i know about from failed attempts. Now that i know where the exit is, that might be a strategy too, haha.

edit: calima beat me to most points. yeah, timing defense and attacks is really important too, at least in fights you have a good chance of winning.

edit2: now that the judging is over, here's some still states from the missing boss fight. The player would've stood on a sprite based platform while the bg was split to scroll along with the minotaurs' fints and punches.

Attachments:
minotaur.bmp
minotaur.bmp [ 30.12 KiB | Viewed 1500 times ]

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