NESMaker reviews?

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rainwarrior
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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by rainwarrior » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:37 pm

I don't know how much more context you'd really need to understand that segment. I feel like the words should convey it well enough? It's not like any of it was said with some sarcastic tone.

I'm not going to try to describe everything, but to give a more global view: the over-arching context is that this is a movie about Joe and his project. There are a few appearances from various NES dev people, and this segment is unusually long compared to the other interviews which tend to be very brief, but the story he's telling here is primarily about his own thoughts upon meeting those two. It's not a documentary of the NES development scene, except where it's tangential to Joe's own story.

I'm a bit perplexed that tepples had not been able to see it by now, but also people had been referring to this scene with judgement so it seemed necessary to provide a transcript for the sake of healthier discussion.

Personally, I don't see any malicious intent in it. Whether this is a fair portrayal or in good taste might be up for debate, but if there's any subtext that you've missed by only getting that transcripted excerpt, it's probably not very significant, IMO.


Otherwise I don't have much to say about NESmaker, as I haven't used it, and it's not really a product that is aimed at me either... so I'm not $30 curious about it, but I'd gladly give it a spin if I were given a copy. I've been very happy to see some of the stuff made with it.

Mystic Searches I'd like to see finished and am still waiting for, but I probably can't complain much about kickstarter project delays without sounding like a hypocrite. ;P

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Bregalad
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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by Bregalad » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:49 am

toggle switch wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:42 pm
i also assume they are both comfortable enough in their own self-representation to not be upset that somebody pointed out their GWAR t-shirt, i mean, heaven forbid! the joke is that he was expecting a professor looking guy and apparently memblers looked more like a metalhead. i also teach some fairly technical stuff for a living and people often expect me to look a certain way and i enjoy confounding those expectations by looking more like a party kid than a staid old man.
Are you sure you "enjoy confounding those expectations" and that you don't just hate wearing pretty clothes such as shirt, suit etc...
Personally I loate pretty clothes but when I got my master diploma I was the only one not in suit so I felt stupid but I would also have felt stupid if I was in a suit because this cloth is horrendous to me.

Also all their suit were blacks, like if they somehow agreed themselves on it. Weird.

In all cases, IMHO clothing is just a colossal waste of cotton that would be better used as either crop field to feed the poor or trees to capture some carbon dioxide. In an ideal world we should all hang out naked, lol.

But since this isn't an option because of the weather and cultural norms, the less worse we can do is hang out with casual clothing and only change when really worn out to the point of not being usable anymore.

Skrotebag
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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by Skrotebag » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:54 am

rainwarrior wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:37 pm
I don't know how much more context you'd really need to understand that segment. I feel like the words should convey it well enough? It's not like any of it was said with some sarcastic tone.
I think people can take away very different impressions from any situation, some people are virtually immune to picking up on things other people would react quite strongly against. To me, drawing critical attention to someones appearance (focusing on a perceived differing from the 'norm') in the way the film did is WAY over the line; it's a very personal and rude thing say about anyone in any situation, let alone for mass 'entertainment' purposes.

Maybe I'm sensitive to this due to being consistently bullied throughout my life (right up to my current age of 50 FFS!) due to looking different and leading a not-so-normal lifestyle.

I'm truly heartened that nobody featured seems offended, but it doesn't change my take on it.

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pubby
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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by pubby » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:22 pm

I disliked the segment because the only question to tepples was one mocking his appearance. That's disrespectful and unprofessional to me. I would feel very hurt and betrayed had it happened to me.

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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by FrankenGraphics » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:15 pm

On the tool
What bananmos said resonated with me. Also, i think the reason why NESmaker doesn't resonate as much here as with the new crowd it made aware and brought into the fold, is simply in the "no coding required" mission statement. To a programmer who enjoys programming as a spare time activity, that's kind of the reverse to the reason why you'd be in it. For a story writer or an animator, the story is of course different. Maybe you just want a medium for what other creative subject you care about doing most.

I know Joe is looking for angles on how NM might be used by experienced nes dev:ers as well. I think the answer to that question might be a bit uncomfortable: if the tool was modularized so that you could use, say, the level editor, HUD editor, pixel editor, text to character converter etc etc independently, chances of one or a few of those tools being used by community members would be greater. When it's all integrated and you have less control over the output of those tools (some things are byte packed into the project file with no means of either text or bin export), it bottlenecks the general versatility outside supporting the "mystic" engine.

i DID find a use of NM outside of its own engine once or twice when i tried out and previewed animation timings for a few metasprites i had made in NESST. I'm hoping the possibilities will grow in number.

On the movie:
I haven't watched the movie, but i was a bit surprised it wasn't more about chronicling the scene - kind of a missed opportunity IMO because what's a good documentary if not taking time to detail particular phenomena? There seemed to be quite an effort to be interviewing US nes developers and then so little of it wound up in the documentary, judging from the trailer and comments here. I'd pay for a movie that actually would do just that, but then again, i'm a nerd.

I agree there are two kinds of nerds these days. The ones who'll have a hard time in school and potentially later in life for being really passionate about one or a few specific interests, subjects or hobbies that just might not have much social value, and then the commercial friendly nerd where taking delight about knowing things more than average about some popular mainstream subject (star wars trivia for example) might up your status or at least provide smooth conversation pieces. Being good consumers (seeing all the movies multiple times, collecting a lot of merch in recognizeable franchises) also means growing social and cultural capital or else provide character flavour that makes life easier. I'm not saying these are any less passionate or valid, but it's two different life experiences. Also, you can be a bit of both.
bregalad wrote:In all cases, IMHO clothing is just a colossal waste of cotton that would be better used as either crop field to feed the poor or trees to capture some carbon dioxide.
Yes, i view the bulk of the textile/fashion industry complex is highly unethical on just about every imaginable level. For all the talk of sustainable innovation, it's such a mess. I could write essay after essay...
http://www.frankengraphics.com - personal NES blog

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FrankenGraphics
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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by FrankenGraphics » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:22 pm

tepples wrote:Was I wrong to take a job at Retrotainment Games?
If this was hypothetically the only thing you did, you'd still be an "8 bit" hero.


Honestly. If there was no form of monetary compensation involved in making new NES titles whatsoever, we'd maybe see a "full-featured" title once in a decade. Most people simply don't have the luxury to devote this much time for free.

Isn't the whole end goal to get interesting things out?
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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by Chasersgaming » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:07 pm

I purchased NESmaker a few months ago, i couldn't really get on with it, haven't gone back to it yet. I was going to write a little review about it, but it's not exactly been a very good experience so far, so i'm just waiting for 5.0 to see if it's any better and have solved a few issues and il give it another chance. Right now i'm always met with something i can't do, because its something NESmaker software won't do. When i ask if it is a NES limitation, or a NESmaker limitation, the answer is always a NESmaker one. OR i "would need to get under the hood", which isn't an issue, i was hoping NESmaker would be something that would ease me into Assembly anyway, but it doesn't, so the "No Coding Required" is VERY misleading and total nonsense. But were see where its at when the 5.0 version is released. :)

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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by Pokun » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:02 pm

The thing with these kind of maker tools is that, no matter what maker you are using or how advanced it is, you are always going to run into a wall of limitations of the tool. You either have to accept it and try to find an alternate way of doing what you want, accept it and scrap the idea and try to make a game more realistically within the tool's limitations (which might be a good thing) or you don't accept it and instead learn the hardware and assembly so you can code it yourself however you want (within hardware limitations).

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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by tokumaru » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:27 pm

The NES is already a pretty limited platform as it is, so it's not surprising at all that a piece of software that can easily (i.e. with little or no coding) be transformed into anything doesn't exist for it. Expecting that would be unrealistic.

If my understanding is correct, NESMaker is just a bunch of engines for different styles of games, coded by people who are somewhat new to NES development themselves, with a few customizable behaviors and replaceable assets. For a lot of people with no coding experience, I'm sure that simply putting their own graphics and sounds in is enough for them to consider they've made an NES game, but if you really want to make that shit yours, I don't see any other way besides diving into the assembly (either by expanding on what NESMaker has to offer or by creating your own stuff from the ground up).

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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by turboxray » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:53 pm

Sounds like the SalesForce of nes dev world haha: "clicks over code", welcome to NES CRM.

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Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by cpow » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:01 am

turboxray wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:53 pm
Sounds like the SalesForce of nes dev world haha: "clicks over code", welcome to NES CRM.
Or try nesicide. :) It's free...and yes, you do get what you pay for. Hahaha.

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