Homebrews with female characters

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Bregalad
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Bregalad » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:44 am

DRW wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:45 pm
Again: You systematically took 10 old threads. 10! Not one, not two. 10. In a row. Many of them that haven't had new posts in months. Then you wrote something into them, and most of the time it wasn't even very meaningful. Why?
It's very likely to be simple : Youngsters aren't used to the old style organizsed "threaded forums" conversation style like here. Instead they're used to the "social network style" where everyone is encouraged to comment everything in a huge mess of completely cahotic "big-data".

As such it's perfectly normal for them to add their little insignificant comments anywhere.
Useless, lumbering half-wits don't scare us.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by DRW » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:27 am

Bregalad wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:44 am
It's very likely to be simple : Youngsters aren't used to the old style organizsed "threaded forums" conversation style like here. Instead they're used to the "social network style" where everyone is encouraged to comment everything in a huge mess of completely cahotic "big-data".

As such it's perfectly normal for them to add their little insignificant comments anywhere.
:D Yeah, I can get behind that explanation.


Nikku4211 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:02 pm
Also, if you're not angry or upset about it, then can you explain your language here?
DRW wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:45 pm
I asked you why the fuck you felt the need to post on-topic, but ultimately superfluous one-liners in 10 mostly old, inactive threads.
I'm not angry about the necrobump. But, yeah, if I call somebody out by asking him "What were you thinking?" and all he says is "Sorry", then this indeed does get on my nerves. I hate stupidity. And when I ask you what you were thinking, I'm not expecting you to crawl on the ground and ask for forgiveness, I'm expecting you to answer me in a smart way.


nocash wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:59 pm
Explaining that armored females aren't good because you prefer to identify more of their anatomy...
I didn't say they aren't good. I said: If of all the games in my list, I only have one that happens to have a female protagonist and all the others are male, then I want the female protagonist to be visible as female.

Among Mario, Link, Mega Man, Simon Belmont, the "Contra" guys etc., if the only female has a sprite that's just a robot suit, then the game might be good or it might be bad. The protagonist might be great or lame. But this specific game doesn't satisfy my desire to have one game with a clearly female protagonist.
I might still play the game for its quality. For example, "Super Metroid" might be a very fitting game if you're into really atmospheric science fiction games.
But the specific property "this game is one with a clearly female protagonist" (in the same way "Tomb Raider" or "Shantae" are) isn't covered by a game like "Metroid" or "Ms. Pac-Man".


nocash wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:59 pm
it's one thing to say that in 2015... but few would expect to hear somebody to repeat that detailed considerations in 2020.
Oh please! I don't give a shit about the recent trend initiated by that crybaby cancel culture generation who takes issues with everything.
Those people always want to be so liberal, but in fact, today's generation actually has the morals of the 50s, minus the homophobia.

In all the decades since the 50s, the youth became more and more liberal, with their parents and grandparents being regarded as old-fashioned and conservative. Except for today's youth. They revert back to the morals of yester-yesterday.

For example, it were old, bitter soccer moms who took issue with stuff like Al Bundy or "South Park", and those shows rightfully made fun about this very thing.
Today, it's the exact opposite: The youth is bothered by the slightest things that aren't P.C. And the big companies bow down to the morons and remove harmless shows like "Little Britain" because they are insensitive or something like that.

But I won't make myself the bitch of this thin-skinned easily-upset generation.

If you want to present a non-sexualized tough woman as your hero, do so. We had that as well with Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley, Beatrix Kiddo etc., so it's not even anything new that the current generation came up with.
But I won't let myself be guilt-shamed for liking some of my singers and game characaters in midriff-baring outfits, for preferring the fanservicey popcorn cinema that is 2000's "Charlie's Angels" as opposed to the bland, man-hating recent version, for preferring James Bond as a manly man playboy and for unironically liking the things that Al Bundy has to say.
People didn't fight for more freedom of expression just so that those little brats catapult us back to the morals of the 50s with the addition of complaints about "toxic masculinity".

So, don't tell me that in 2020 I cannot express the desire to have female videogame or movie characters or singers who look attractive, womanly and sexy. Because I don't give a shit about what sensitive little crybabies bitch about.

They want diversity? Fine. They can have it:
They can get that fat girl from the new 2020 X-Men and I take Coffy from 1973, a badass, sexy woman who fights pimps and drug dealers, but isn't a man-hating feminazi and isn't above using her looks to get what she wants.
That is diverse, isn't it?


nocash wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:59 pm
What was your goal when starting this thread, female empowerment, voyeurism, or something else?
Nothing of those stupid catchphrases. I simply wanted to fill my game list with some variety:
Several themes (fantasy, science fiction, contemporary etc.), several genres (platformers, puzzle games, racing etc.)

And since most of my games have a male character as the protagonist, I wanted to have one game in my list with a clearly female main character who fulfills the following criteria:

Is not just one in a group (unless the whole group would be female) (i.e. "Super Mario Bros. 2" doesn't count).
Is human or a human-like species (i.e. genies and elves count as well, but Ms. Pac-Man or a mother bird doesn't, she has to be what is commonly understood as a woman).
Is actually natively a videogame character (not just a comic or movie character in a videogame conversion).
Isn't just a character in a spinoff game based on a male character's franhcise (i.e. a game based on Mega Man's sister Roll wouldn't count).
And fights the bad guys just like the male characters in most other games (i.e. not a game like "Zooming Secretary" that's simply a female equivalent to "Paperboy", but I want a female equivalent to "Castlevania" or "Kung Fu").

And yes, the character being very sexy is not a requirement, but it surely wouldn't hurt either.

And so, I created my own little game that has all the properties that I listed, plus some optional stuff that I like. This game is "City Trouble" and you can see the main character Amy in my icon on the left.
And if you think her design is misogynist or whatever, please consider that my graphics artist who drew all the sprites and artworks (and the game's bad girl, Scarlett, has even skimpier clothes than Amy) is a woman as well.
My game "City Trouble": www.denny-r-walter.de/city.htm

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by tepples » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:09 am

And congratulations on City Trouble. The game did what it set out to do and then some. I don't know how much this topic had to do with it, but Nebs 'n Debs, Wo xiang niao niao, Cheril the Goddess, and Lala the Magical all ended up as platformers with female leads. I'm not sure, however, quite where a roly-poly teenage girl like Libbet sits on the "human-like species" to "Ms. Pac-Man or a mother bird" continuum.

(To others: Please don't let this topic explode into partisan politics.)

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Oziphantom » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:06 am

While turn based RPGs are not your thing. FF does get a bit semi-realtime and had female writers on it(not sure if they started as early as 2 and 3 though). Thus it gives you
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Ma ... antasy_II)
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Leila
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Refia
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Sara_Altney
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Aria_Benett

It is also worth noting that Samas is based upon Iron Man ( hence the red and yellow power suit), but the story of Metroid I and II ( and hence Super) only works as well as it does because it has a female lead. You could put a male in, but I don't think it would work as well.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by DRW » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:23 am

In "Final Fantasy", the female characters are always just part of a larger party. They aren't main characters in the same sense Lara Croft is the main character of "Tomb Raider". This way, "Super Mario Bros. 2" would already fit the bill.

Oziphantom wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:06 am
It is also worth noting that Samas is based upon Iron Man ( hence the red and yellow power suit)
I have never heard of that. Although this wouldn't be that much of a problem. Videogames often got inspiration from movies: "Metroid" itself is "Alien", "Contra" is "Predator". "Castlevania" pretends to be Hammer Horror movies, but in reality it's "Vampire Hunter D". "Mega Man" is "Astro Boy".

As long as it's just slightly inspired by those movies, but not an actual conversion (i.e. Samus isn't literally supposed to be Ellen Ripley or Tony Stark), that's fine. Just like "Star Wars" takes stuff from old westerns and samurai movies, but the franchise is ultimately its own thing, so are these games.
Hence, I would have even accepted "Layla" if I had liked that game, although it's clearly inspired by "Dirty Pair - Project Eden" more than any other game I just named is inspired by something else.

Oziphantom wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:06 am
but the story of Metroid I and II ( and hence Super) only works as well as it does because it has a female lead. You could put a male in, but I don't think it would work as well.
In what way does it only really work with a woman?
My game "City Trouble": www.denny-r-walter.de/city.htm

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Bregalad » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:51 am

DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:23 am
In "Final Fantasy", the female characters are always just part of a larger party. They aren't main characters in the same sense Lara Croft is the main character of "Tomb Raider". This way, "Super Mario Bros. 2" would already fit the bill.
Final Fantasy V has 3 females with 2 males in the pary, while FInal Fantasy VI defaults to Tina/Terra as lead characters in the begining and other places, while it also defautls with Celes at some point (but also default at males at other points).

Apparently Final Fantasy XIII has a true female lead protagonist.
Oh please! I don't give a shit about the recent trend initiated by that crybaby cancel culture generation who takes issues with everything.
Those people always want to be so liberal, but in fact, today's generation actually has the morals of the 50s, minus the homophobia.
That rent is funny and I mostly agree with what you said.
Useless, lumbering half-wits don't scare us.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Nikku4211 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:18 am

tepples wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:09 am
I'm not sure, however, quite where a roly-poly teenage girl like Libbet sits on the "human-like species" to "Ms. Pac-Man or a mother bird" continuum.
Humans born without legs are still human. Isn't that what Polis kind of are? Humans that happen to be born without legs.
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Oziphantom » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:42 pm

DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:23 am
Oziphantom wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:06 am
but the story of Metroid I and II ( and hence Super) only works as well as it does because it has a female lead. You could put a male in, but I don't think it would work as well.
In what way does it only really work with a woman?
A child instinctively seeks and bonds with its mother. While some animals do bond with the father, its not a strong or as instinctual. If you have not played (Super)Metroid, it basically has 2 plot points.
1. Riddly killed Samus's Parents
2. "The last" Metroid thinks she is their mother.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Oziphantom » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:01 pm

Bregalad wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:51 am
Apparently Final Fantasy XIII has a true female lead protagonist.
XIII Lightning. So popular it had 2 sequels. She was so big that Prada and SLV used "her" as a model https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/c ... both_used/ I think she has even overtaken Cloud in popularity.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by DRW » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:05 pm

Oziphantom wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:42 pm
A child instinctively seeks and bonds with its mother. While some animals do bond with the father, its not a strong or as instinctual.
Yeah, when it's about the actual mother and father of the animal who do their specific nature-given tasks.

But when an animal confuses someone or something with its mother, it doesn't really matter what the other one is. Some birds thought Peter Griffin was their mother and took home in the beard that he had grown.

So, yeah, if the story was about Samus actually having a child, then you would have had a point. But the story is about some metroid merely thinking Samus is its mother because she was the first thing it saw.
You really think the metroid isn't clever enough to realize that Samus is not actually its own species, but it does realize that Samus is a female and it wouldn't have had the same reaction if it had hatched near a man?


And in case your plot about Ridley killing Samus' parents wasn't just an additional story detail, but was supposed to be a further argument why this story works better with a woman: I guess Bruce Wayne and a bunch of RPG protagonists want to have a word with you.
My game "City Trouble": www.denny-r-walter.de/city.htm

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Oziphantom » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:11 am

In a weird twist of fate. I was lookup up some GBA games, to which I discovered there is a GBA Pocky & Rocky game.( I loved I and II on the SNES). However it turns out that Pocky and Rocky is actually the sequel already. The original game is KiKi KaiKai which was ported to the FDS and only has Sayo-chan. Seems it is known as Kiki Kaikai - Dotou Hen and requires patches to work http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6504

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Nikku4211 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:06 am

Oziphantom wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:11 am
In a weird twist of fate. I was lookup up some GBA games, to which I discovered there is a GBA Pocky & Rocky game.( I loved I and II on the SNES). However it turns out that Pocky and Rocky is actually the sequel already. The original game is KiKi KaiKai which was ported to the FDS and only has Sayo-chan. Seems it is known as Kiki Kaikai - Dotou Hen and requires patches to work http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6504
Pocky would fit, except OP doesn't want games where the female is in a group with a male, and the raccoon dog is male here.
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by DRW » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:00 pm

I might not have bothered if the player 2 character is simply an animal companion.

The main reason why those games didn't match my criteria is because when I say female, I mean an actual grown-up woman. Or at least a high school student. But the definite female main character in my game list should not be some eight year old girl.
My game "City Trouble": www.denny-r-walter.de/city.htm

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Nikku4211 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:04 pm

DRW wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:00 pm
[...]when I say female, I mean an actual grown-up woman. Or at least a high school student. But the definite female main character in my game list should not be some eight year old girl.
And why is that? And if so, why is a high school student in your criteria?

:shock:
I have an ASD, so empathy is not natural for me. If I hurt you, I apologise.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Pokun » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:17 pm

Arle Nadja is just 6 in her debut game and it works quite well. She is 16 in most later games I think.


I agree with Oziphantom that the Metroid series wouldn't work as well with a male protagonist, since they made a thing of the mother-and-child roles (of course if she was male that would just not happen). It's not just the metroid larva confusing Samus for being its mother, Samus is also implied to have maternal feelings for the larva, something that wouldn't be possible for a male character in the same way. Other M uses all the various implied mother-and-child roles as its theme and plays with it much more.

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