Homebrews with female characters

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calima
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by calima » Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:38 am

DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:57 am
It's surely better than "Zelda 1", but all in all: Your task is to get the eight batches and to defeat the Elite Four. And that's exactly what you do.
O.k., you have some encounters with Team Rocket. But are they actually relevant to the overall plot? Team Rocket does something, you defeat them, they disappear. Fire and forget.
Gary appears, makes some snarky comment, you fight him, he disappears.

You never get into a situation where something from earlier in the game becomes relevant later again, except for "you get an item and later you can use it to aquire a Pokémon".
You don't fight a random person who turns out to be crucial to your journey later. You never help a person who later appears unexpectedly to help you in return, let alone with something that takes the plot in a whole new direction.
I think there's plenty of those, even if the later series had more than the first. In Yellow, your partner Pikachu hates you at the start, and grows to trust you if you treat it well and become a better trainer.

Team Rocket is pretty central to the plot. While you can ignore them and focus on the Elite Four, Rockets are the main antagonist, devising new ways and working against you. When you beat them in one location, they refocus and attack a new one. And unlike the FF pirates, the city they attack is completely changed by it. When you get further, you find out how deep they've infiltrated places, their boss turning out to be the last gym leader.

Gary shows some development in the first series, more in the second. He's the favorite kid, from a famous family, yet he keeps losing to some upstart. When he finally achieves his dream and becomes champion, he gets crushed moments later by you. In the later series, he has become a gym leader, accepting his place and tries to keep on developing to beat his nemesis. You get to fight the first generation champion in the second gen if you can find him; you hear of his exploits and what he did.

There's more of this in second gen. Your nemesis turns out to be the former Team Rocket boss's son, and he completely changes his approach over the game. You also hear about the former boss having gone into hiding to train in solitude, while remnants of Rockets try to regain the former glory.

Earlier plot points becoming relevant later, well I can think of the museum, the graveyard and the Mewtwo history. Granted, they all lead to new pokemon or new ways to fight, but that's the game's point. Helping someone who helps you later or switches sides doesn't really happen in the first series, but does in the later ones.

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DRW
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by DRW » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:02 am

calima wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:38 am
In Yellow, your partner Pikachu hates you at the start, and grows to trust you if you treat it well and become a better trainer.
That's a Tamagotchi-like gameplay gimmick, but it has nothing really to do with the overall narrative.

calima wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:38 am
When you beat them in one location, they refocus and attack a new one.
Yeah, that's exactly it: The Team Rocket encounters are side quests. You have your main objective. And then you fight against Team Rocket at one point. And afterwards, you resume your main quest at exactly the same point from where you were distracted.

Team Rocket never changes your main goal. They never have any lasting impact.

Even the fact that Giovanni is the gym leader: So what? It still turns out to be a regular gym battle. The fact that a crime lord is working for the Pokémon League has no relevance at all in the end. You just continue your way to the four champions as if the last gym leader was Joe Anybody.

calima wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:38 am
And unlike the FF pirates, the city they attack is completely changed by it.
How?

calima wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:38 am
Gary shows some development in the first series, more in the second. He's the favorite kid, from a famous family, yet he keeps losing to some upstart. When he finally achieves his dream and becomes champion, he gets crushed moments later by you. In the later series, he has become a gym leader, accepting his place and tries to keep on developing to beat his nemesis.
None of this is actually communicated in the game itself. That's all purely internet fan talk.
Gary doesn't become more humble as the game goes along.
And the fact that his champion title literally lasted mere minutes and he must be devastated is nowhere acknowledged or even hinted at within the game. That's purely what fans interpret. He wonders for a moment how he could lose and then accepts his defeat.
Likewise, he's using the same generic trash talk when you battle him in Gold/Silver and later acknowledges your victory. Nothing even alludes to anything regarding "accepting his place" or wanting to battle Ash/Red again.


You all bring up a lot of plot points about "Ninja Gaiden" or "Pokémon". But nothing even compares in the slightest to what I'm talking about in regards to "Final Fantasy Adventure".

In that game the hero's actions shape the villan's actions and the villain's reactions shape the hero's further path. You're not just roaming the overworld to tick off a todo list, like in "Pokémon". Nor is the story detached from the game as in "Ninja Gaiden".


Seriously, I advise you to play the game or to invest some time to watch the longplay and you might see what I mean.
Actually, it's enough if you simply watch the first 47 minutes to know what I'm talking about. (You can jump ahead on the overworld as soon as they visited Bogard, and you can jump ahead in the dungeons after the first screen and before the boss to make it even shorter.)

I'm serious: Please take half an hour and watch this video to the 0:47:00 mark (as I said, press Right to fast forward through the overworld and dungeon sections, but watch stuff in towns and houses and the dungeons' starts and ends):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=di5Vhk3AEUc

And then you might understand why I don't take your examples as valid answer to the question which game can rival "Final Fantasy Adventure" in storytelling.

Or maybe you say "What a stupid, boring plot." But then at least we can talk on equal footing about the difference in structure between this, "Final Fantasy" and "Pokémon".

And if you think the ending of "Pokémon" is sad because people can imagine in their head that Gary might be devastated, then watch the ending of "Final Fantasy Adventure" to see a truly heartbreaking ending that's actually like this in-universe and not only on Reddit posts about "Pokémon" theories:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=di5Vhk3AEUc&t=3h51m55s
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Pokun » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:49 am

Just to make it clear, I have played Seiken Densetsu / Final Fantasy Adventure many times, in both English and Japanese, and remembers the story quite well.

DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm
Pokun wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:48 pm
I just meant that FF1 introduces some heavy themes that you wouldn't expect from a traditional save-the-princess type of game. Such as space travel and time loops. Complex themes is a common pattern in later Square games as well.
Yeah, o.k., themes. But themes alone don't make a complex plot.
I think just by including complex themes such as time loops, the story has become more complex. That's all I was saying. Please don't compare it to FF Adventure.


DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm
To be fair, I don't know many of the games myself. "Final Fantasy II" had a pre-defined party, so maybe their plot is good as well. Or maybe it's still basic. I can't tell. Maybe somebody who has played "II" and "Adventure" can compare the two.
Also, I have a feeling that "Radia Senki" might be on a similar level as "Final Fantasy Adventure". Might.
FF II is similar to FF Adventure in that it has all pre-made characters. You give a name to the boy and girl, but that's it, they already have background stories and personalities conveyed in dialogue lines in cut-scenes. FF2 works the same way, but you have 4 heroes (although I think they even have canon names unlike the FF Adventure protoganists). This in contrast with DQ1, DQ3, DQ4 and FF1 where the hero is created by the player and has no pre-made personality or even real dialogue lines. FF2 is the first FF game that does this, and therefore also has cut-scenes like FF Adventure.

I'm not sure if the story itself is simpler than FF Adventure, but it does have simpler cut-scenes I think. It is dynamic in the same way though, and affects the world around it (towns are destroyed, people change their dialogue lines all the time, NPCs populate new areas when you win them in the war etc). You start the game fleeing from an invading empire with your childhood friends, and you seemingly gets killed by the empire troops. You are rescued and revived by the rebellion and has to do a dangerous mission to join them. The king of the fallen kingdom is injured from the war and you meet the crown princess' fiancé prince Scott who is also injured but reveals that a certain greedy lord betrayed the king. The story goes on like this, you get on a mission to sabotage the enemy empire's battle fleet flagship and save the princess who were taken as a hostage in an empire attack right before that. This is before a previous failed attempt to destroy the ship. You get challenged by the enemy emperor in his coliseum, and you enter a typhoon and a sea monster. So yeah no Triforce gathering in this game either.


DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm
"Final Fantasy" looks like it is frozen in time: Those pirates in the second town, how long have they been there? It looks like they have been there forever, just waiting for the hero to appear. Same with other fetch quests.
Now you are just unfair. The heroes comes to the town and realize that the town is under siege by pirates. Although it's not clear how long this has been going on, it's not frozen in time or anything. About all RPGs works like this, including FF Adventure. When you arrive at the chocobo egg it hatches right after you approach it, no matter how long you take getting there.


DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm
Pokun wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:48 pm
I don't see your point. Do you mean the developers didn't try to make gameplay and story sequences connected?
Yes, they did. And in general, the story kind of works. But what I mean is: In several places, the plot is quite wonky. And the levels sometimes don't fit what the story is about:

Why does Irene put Ryu in a cell that is basically in walking distance to one of the four bosses? Why is the cell located high above the ground with a huge mountainside in the background? We were just in a big city. Plot-wise, I would have exptected another city level, maybe a sewer or something for variety, and not in the middle of the fucking Rocky Mountains.
Well while it's true that the action sequences doesn't match up perfectly with the overall story (which is understandable since it would otherwise probably be a pretty bad game), I think you are interpreting them very literary with little imagination of your own. Do you really believe that Ryu is taken to a room with a door, that takes him up a 2-dimensional path where enemies stands in line waiting for him in a linear path (with bottomless pits), leading up to some hideout where Bomberhead is waiting for him? That's just how 2D action games works. You don't measure the exact distance Ryu walks in the tiles the level is built from, this wouldn't even cover screen transitions. You can't create a perfectly realistic world just to use a small part of it for a level in a 2D action game, it wouldn't make any sense.

DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm
How did she drag him there?
She tranqed him. And she probably had goons carry him considering who she worked for.

DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm
And why?
The story introduces lots of questions early on like this to make the player intrigued to go on. Not all of them are answered either. It's a common plot device.

DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm
Why does she choose the villain's hideout to give Ryu the statue?
Now this is just my own interpretation, it's not necessarily the same as the canon (if there is one), but they took Ryu up some American mountains where Walter Smith lives, to protect him against his followers but also to force him to cooperate (that's why they tranq him). They needed him to destroy Jaquio as they couldn't do this with just their own agents. The enemy is not far behind however, and as their is no time to explain they just give him the statue and tell him which way to run. They probably picked a young woman agent to make him more cooperative. The enemies are not dumb though and manages to trap him, and he ends up fighting their leader in some ruins. I don't believe this is their hideout or anything, it just "happened" (plot device) to become the arena for their fight due to the circumstances.

DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm
Anyway, the statue was snapped away by some regular-sized green ninja, but in the end, you fight a huge monstrous guy in orange baggy pants. So, either Ryu got outsmarted by some common mook (who is never seen again) or once more they didn't care for consistency when that three meter high guy can dress as a regular-sized human. (Why did he wear a ninja costume anyway?)
...
Pokun wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:48 pm
Besides they already had a ninja boss in Basaquer/Berserker (BTW since a berserk is a viking I think it's a strange name on a ninja).
In how far is a guy who looks like a genie and who jumps back and forth in a pre-defined, never changing arc and shoots three bullets a ninja opponent?
I was just saying that the fact that they had a ninja type of boss already in Basaquer, could have affected the decision to make Bloody Malth to not be another ninja boss (assuming that Basaquer was already finalized).

No matter how you look at it Basaquer definitely looks like a stereotypical ninja, not a genie. Dark baggy clothes, though historically somewhat incorrect, is a typical ninja attire from ninja legends. Bombs is also a stereotypical ninja weapon along with shuriken and kunai. Although he throws them in a very peculiar pattern and they don't seem to explode. He also has a chonmage (male ponytail worn by the warrior class in Japan) variation, and wears some kind of mask that is also common in pop-culture depictions of ninja. The only non-ninja thing about him is his name, and his heritage (it sounds like he is Chinese). Then again Bloody Malth is also a nontraditional ninja considering he is European.

It is a bit strange though that he uses green ninja clothes first then red ones when you fight. I think that when he realized Ryu was catching up, he probably "ninja-changed" into the red attire (which includes armor) and waited for Ryu so he could ambush him in a cave.

Why is Basaquer suddenly larger than Ryuu? That's easy, he stole a super mushroom from Mario.


DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm
It can actually be implemented quite easily. You don't need a "Street Fighter II"-level AI.

"Vice - Project Doom", a game heavily inspired by "Ninja Gaiden" right down to the cutscenes, does exactly this for the first form of its final battle:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o84PiCvcgdU&t=40m37s

"Castlevania III" has one as well:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFFKAl2A898&t=1h28m22s

"Mega Man" also:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sKcjUjbPr4&t=20m30s
Nevertheless, they didn't. Not even the final boss is that complex and is basically just shooting projectiles at Ryu.


DRW wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm
Pokun wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:48 pm
I think this is the problem here. You are now looking for a pre-SNES non-adventure game that has more and possibly better story than Final Fantasy Adventure, which isn't even a pre-SNES game itself.
Yeah, but it was at the beginning of the Super Nintendo life cycle. It predates "A Link to the Past" by almost half a year, therefore couldn't take inspiration by that game, let alone by stuff like "Chrono Trigger".
Fair enough. It's a game at the end of the 8-bit era and the beginning of the 16-bit era. Finding a similar game that has more story development among 8-bit games is probably quite hard, while about any 16-bit RPG would easily match it. Zelda and Pokemon games both has very simple story compared to Square Soft games, so I wouldn't even consider comparing them.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Nikku4211 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:02 am

DRW wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:02 am
Seriously, I advise you to play the game or to invest some time to watch the longplay and you might see what I mean.
Actually, it's enough if you simply watch the first 47 minutes to know what I'm talking about. (You can jump ahead on the overworld as soon as they visited Bogard, and you can jump ahead in the dungeons after the first screen and before the boss to make it even shorter.)

I'm serious: Please take half an hour and watch this video to the 0:47:00 mark (as I said, press Right to fast forward through the overworld and dungeon sections, but watch stuff in towns and houses and the dungeons' starts and ends):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=di5Vhk3AEUc

And then you might understand why I don't take your examples as valid answer to the question which game can rival "Final Fantasy Adventure" in storytelling.

Or maybe you say "What a stupid, boring plot." But then at least we can talk on equal footing about the difference in structure between this, "Final Fantasy" and "Pokémon".

And if you think the ending of "Pokémon" is sad because people can imagine in their head that Gary might be devastated, then watch the ending of "Final Fantasy Adventure" to see a truly heartbreaking ending that's actually like this in-universe and not only on Reddit posts about "Pokémon" theories:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=di5Vhk3AEUc&t=3h51m55s
I just watched that ending and I was like: 'What?'

I don't know about you, but some person being a tree seed doesn't make sense to me.

I'm sure it's one of those context things, but man, I just wasn't really moved by it. The sappy music didn't really help either.

I still see your point that they did go some way into making an elaborate in-game cutscene with Ms. Exposition rather than it being fan theories, but meh.
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by calima » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:01 am

DRW wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:02 am
calima wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:38 am
And unlike the FF pirates, the city they attack is completely changed by it.
How?
There's Rocket grunts everywhere, several houses are blocked by them, people in the streets/center/shop are scared, and people in other towns hear about the invasion in news. IIRC there were less people outside too.
None of this is actually communicated in the game itself. That's all purely internet fan talk.
Gary doesn't become more humble as the game goes along.
And the fact that his champion title literally lasted mere minutes and he must be devastated is nowhere acknowledged or even hinted at within the game. That's purely what fans interpret. He wonders for a moment how he could lose and then accepts his defeat.
Likewise, he's using the same generic trash talk when you battle him in Gold/Silver and later acknowledges your victory. Nothing even alludes to anything regarding "accepting his place" or wanting to battle Ash/Red again.
He talks about it on the island before he returns to the gym, as well as if you talk to him after the battle (IIRC).

Not that I'm comparing it to FF Adventure since I haven't played that one, just got reminded of the city siege by your FF pirate comparison.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Pokun » Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:03 pm

I'm not sure what DRW means by fan speculation. The rival is the son of Dr Oak who is very famous, and he obviously has a knack for monster training, just like the player. There is no sense of time in the game, so there is no way to know how long his champion title lasted, but I get the impression that the player wasn't very far behind.


Nikku4211 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:02 am
I just watched that ending and I was like: 'What?'
...
I'm sure it's one of those context things, but man, I just wasn't really moved by it. The sappy music didn't really help either.
Did you just skip to the ending or watch the whole longplay? I can't imagine watching a longplay of an RPG being very fun though, even an action-RPG. And it's a totally different thing to play the whole game yourself and develop sympathy with the characters and stuff. Plus all the hard work you put into solving puzzles and fighting monsters pays off much better if you did it yourself.

BTW if you play this game, make sure to not play on a GBC or GBA, as I think it's one of the games affected by an APU bug in those systems. The title screen music is one of my top favorite BGMs in any game, and this BGM is affected by the bug. It's best played on an original DMG, Pocket/Light or a Super Game Boy 2 (or an accurate emulator in DMG or SGB2 mode).

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by DRW » Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:53 pm

I'll try to answer to the gist of each topic:


"Final Fantasy II":

Looks like the plot is relatively complex. It's a pity that it's a turn-based RPG and not an action adventure, otherwise, it might have been something for me.


Frozen in time, chocobo egg, pirates, Team Rocket:

That's the very thing: The egg is hatching as you're approaching it. You see stuff happen in the world.
With the pirates and Team Rocket: They are already there when you arrive. They don't spontaneously appear in the middle of a dialog of yours. Instead, you come to a new location and some NPCs tell you about the current situation which you then fix.
That's fine in certain cases. But those games never introduce stuff in the middle of other events, nor are there any events that only exist because of your own existence, nor do these situations redirect your goal and your path in any way. Each town has its problems and you solve them when you arrive. Then you continue normally.

In FFA that's different: The villain only attacks the town because you are in it and only after you had a talk with the local sage. The boy was only transformed into a bird to blackmail his sister to steal the pendant from you.
You wanted to take the girl to the sage, but the villain snapped her away, so your adventures take a whole new direction. You fell down an airship and ended up in a region that was never on your path to begin with.


"Ninja Gaiden" story:

No, I don't think the world is a literal two-dimensional plane. But yeah, the building where the cell is located is literally connected to the platforms that lead to the level boss.
And the path that leads to the level boss is literally platforms in the air. That's not necessary by gameplay, but was a conscious design decision: The platforms are drawn in a way so that they are held by large columns. There are many actual ground levels, but this one is literally some man-made construct high above the ground.
And the inside and outside are connected by a door, not by a level change, so yes, even if the overall way would be longer than the literal number of tiles, the connection is still literally there:
You leave some factory and end up high above the ground. Irene told you to escape, but you literally approach the boss. Which also means that Irene chose a hiding place within the vicinity of the boss.

The fact that you have to do mental gymnastics to make sense out of the story (he tried to escape the enemies and they "trapped" him and he "ended up" fighting the boss in the ruins by chance, even though nothing of this is seen in the gameplay) only confirms my statement that story and gameplay isn't well-connected.

Same with your explanations how Berzerker changed his clothes off-screen: They could just use the proper character in their cutscene. Or simply pretend that the guy from the storyline is actually one of the regular green ninja enemies and have one of them at the final door of the snow mountain level.

If you have to fill in the gaps of things that should otherwise be mundane plot details, then, by definition, the story isn't presented well.

And if they're bound by the gameplay, why didn't they design the story around it in the first place?
"We drove you 50 miles out of town and are now in the mountains. We took you here because we're close to one of Jaquio's henchmen. The exit of this factory leaves to his hideout. You need to go and kill him."
See? Perfect alignment of story and gameplay.


FFA ending scene:

Well, of course you should watch the whole plot. That link was only to contrast this ending with Gary's fate in "Pokémon".


Gary and fan speculation:

I was talking about the fact that the few lines Gary has in the game barely constitute as huge examples for a great story and massive character development unless you invent some fan fiction about his continuing depression and the way he deals with his loss in the coming months.

Please remember that I didn't ask you: "Can you list me random plot elements from random games?"
My intention was: Can you name me an 8-bit game that has a story at the level of FFA?

And that's what I get from you:
NO! That can't be! You beat my best! After all that work to become LEAGUE champ? My reign is over already? It's not fair!

Why? Why did I lose? I never made any mistakes raising my POKEMON... Darn it! You're the new POKEMON LEAGUE champion! Although I don't like to admit it.
That's it? That's your character development during gameplay? An acknowledgement from the final boss that the player is better than him? And you have to go to the next game to find 20 more lines of this character who by then is not even a main character anymore?

You wanna read some story scenes from FFA in contrast?
Girl: Hasim's got a serious wound!
Hasim: Oh.. please.. take this girl to.. Wendel.. and.. see Bogard...... He will take care of the rest.. ..
Girl: .. .. Hasim!? .. .. H A S I M!!
Hasim passed away.
Girl: Oh.. No.. Don't leave me alone, Hasim!
Duke: I'm looking for that Bogard, too. Why don't you come with me?
Girl: Oh .. Can I?
Duke: I can't leave you here alone. .. I am Duke.
Elena: Call me Elena.
(After fight with Medusa)
(The screen turns black)
Medusa: Came here to get my tears? Huh! What a joke!
(The screen slowly fades in)
Amanda: Can't find a drop of tear....
Duke: Let's go back to Jadd first.
(Duke walks away)
Amanda: ....Ouch!
Duke: Are you okay?
Amanda: I guess Medusa bit me while fighting.... .... One who was bitten by Medusa turns to Medusa. I'm gonna turn into a Medusa in a short while.... Please do away with me and take my tears, Duke.
Duke: No, I can't!
Amanda: I'm gonna be a monster.... I might lose my mind and hurt people.... Please.... Duke.... Before I lose my feelings.... Please take my tears to Lester. Tell him that I loved him.... .. Please .... Duke .... Pl.. please.. .. ..
(Amanda turns into a Medusa. Attack her)
Duke: ....I'm sorry, Amanda .... But I had to ....
(Examine Amanda)
(The screen turns black)
Duke took a drop of Tear from Amanda's face.
(Ish)
..See that, Auntie? A boy's falling!
Sarah: Oh, yes.
..A birdie is falling, too!
Sarah: Oh.. dear.. ..
(The screen fades then when it fades back in Duke is lying on a bed. There is another bed in the room and Bogard is asleep on it.)
Bogard: Duke....
Duke: .. Bogard! How've you been?
Bogard: I was thrown from the ship.... But Sarah picked me up and saved me. I'm glad to see you again, Duke.
(Duke walks over to the center of the room, and he has his back to Bogard.)
Duke: I can't do this anymore.. I can't do it!
(Duke turns and faces Bogard)
Duke: I'm not the right one to be the Gemma Knight.
Bogard: Come on! You must stand..
Duke: NO! What's that Gemma? .... Why me? Why does that have to be me?
Bogard: Duke, you..
Duke: You do it! You're the Gemma Knight. It's You!
Bogard: .. Shut up! .. SHUT UP!! ..GET OUT!! ..
(Town)
Sarah: He didn't wanna let you know, but.. He can't move for a while for his broken back. He was distressed to hear of places being attacked. But he kept saying that there is a boy.. A boy named Duke will come to save us all.. I didn't really believe him, but when I saw you.. .. Even a Chocobo knew you're the last hope.. Bogard and the bird made me believe in you.. We all believe that you'll save our world now.
For additional effect, couple the scenes with the following songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wKlnEb-ZEQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGkQLzRuh08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKtMph0MkfM

Then you might understand why "Oh no, I lost the Pokémon championship. Well, fair enough. Guess you're the winner now" or "Help. A single, unmoving pirate sprite has been standing in the same spot forever. Please defeat them in a duel and make them go away" cannot hold a candle to FFA's story.
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Nikku4211 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:35 pm

Pokun wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:03 pm
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:02 am
I just watched that ending and I was like: 'What?'
...
I'm sure it's one of those context things, but man, I just wasn't really moved by it. The sappy music didn't really help either.
Did you just skip to the ending or watch the whole longplay? I can't imagine watching a longplay of an RPG being very fun though, even an action-RPG. And it's a totally different thing to play the whole game yourself and develop sympathy with the characters and stuff. Plus all the hard work you put into solving puzzles and fighting monsters pays off much better if you did it yourself.

BTW if you play this game, make sure to not play on a GBC or GBA, as I think it's one of the games affected by an APU bug in those systems. The title screen music is one of my top favorite BGMs in any game, and this BGM is affected by the bug. It's best played on an original DMG, Pocket/Light or a Super Game Boy 2 (or an accurate emulator in DMG or SGB2 mode).
Yeah, I skipped to the ending. I wasn't about to spend 4 hours of my life watching a longplay. Especially since I'm not sure if I'm that interested in playing the game. I've got to find some patches to improve the game's difficulty if there are any.

Also, thanks for the note on the GBC bug. My original DMG Game Boy is already having its screen rot, but I'm glad I have the original Super Game Boy 1(I couldn't afford SGB2). From what I've heard, the only inaccuracy on SGB1 is the internal Game Boy's clock speed matching the SNES', but that's all I know. Good to see that it doesn't have the GBC bug.

Now if only my Super Game Boy had a headphone jack...
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Pokun » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:25 pm

What? Did the game look too easy? There is a restoration patch, but I haven't seen any difficulty tweaking ones.
I think difficulty is fair, though dungeons can be a bit annoying like Bregalad said (but I mean it's not Metroid). It's not a Zelda-style game (complex puzzles and light story), but rather more of a typical Final Fantasy (simple but annoying puzzles and complex story) but with action-based battles. Although it has Final Fantasy in the title (the Japanese version has the sub-title "Final Fantasy Gaiden"), it is the first game in the Seiken Densetsu / Mana series. I highly recommend it.

Super Game Boy is fine. Sound is affected by the missing DMG clock, but it's not by that much. Your TV probably has a headphone jack.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by 93143 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:49 pm

I understand the SGB2 has issues with skipping frames now and then due to the clock mismatch. To me, that seems a high price to pay for having audio at the exactly correct pitch.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by lidnariq » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:57 pm

Both SGB1 and SGB2 drop/duplicate frames, because the NTSC SNES redraws at (Master clock ÷ (262×1364-2)) = 60.09Hz, and the SGB1/2 redraws frames at (Master clock ÷ (456×154)) = 61.17 or 59.73 respectively. Either way, there's tearinga mismatch.
Last edited by lidnariq on Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Nikku4211 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:44 pm

Pokun wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:25 pm
What? Did the game look too easy? There is a restoration patch, but I haven't seen any difficulty tweaking ones.
I think difficulty is fair, though dungeons can be a bit annoying like Bregalad said (but I mean it's not Metroid). It's not a Zelda-style game (complex puzzles and light story), but rather more of a typical Final Fantasy (simple but annoying puzzles and complex story) but with action-based battles. Although it has Final Fantasy in the title (the Japanese version has the sub-title "Final Fantasy Gaiden"), it is the first game in the Seiken Densetsu / Mana series. I highly recommend it.

Super Game Boy is fine. Sound is affected by the missing DMG clock, but it's not by that much. Your TV probably has a headphone jack.
It's not that the game looked too easy. I didn't actually look at the gameplay, but I'd look for gameplay improvement patches just in case the game turns out to have that characteristic 80s-early 90s difficulty so many games had. I'm sure a lot of people love arcade-style difficulty, but I'm more casual, so I prefer my games easier.

I already knew the game was actually Secret of Mana 0.

Also, my (1366x768 LCD) TV has no headphone jack. I've only seen one TV that does, and it's a late 2000s 1080p HD LCD TV.
lidnariq wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:57 pm
Both SGB1 and SGB2 drop/duplicate frames, because the NTSC SNES redraws at (Master clock ÷ (262×1364-2)) = 60.09Hz, and the SGB1/2 redraws frames at (Master clock ÷ (456×154)) = 61.17 or 59.73 respectively. Either way, there's tearing.
I've never noticed tearing on my SGB1.
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by tepples » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:49 pm

The NTSC Super Game Boy doesn't tear. It instead drops frames.

Disclosure: I have a Super Game Boy 2 but have not yet put it through exhaustive tests in 144p Test Suite to see whether it only duplicates frames or also tears. I don't know about the PAL one: whether it just drops a lot more frames or tears, though I seriously doubt it tears because of vblank timing considerations.

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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by DRW » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:33 pm

Nikku4211 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:44 pm
It's not that the game looked too easy. I didn't actually look at the gameplay, but I'd look for gameplay improvement patches just in case the game turns out to have that characteristic 80s-early 90s difficulty so many games had.
Shouldn't you at least check out the game yourself for 10 minutes before you decide that you don't want to experience it in the authentic way the developers intended, but that your experience shall be based on the way some random person on the internet modified the ROM file?
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Re: Homebrews with female characters

Post by Nikku4211 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:48 pm

DRW wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:33 pm
Shouldn't you at least check out the game yourself for 10 minutes before you decide that you don't want to experience it in the authentic way the developers intended, but that your experience shall be based on the way some random person on the internet modified the ROM file?
I tend to get pissed off when I can't get past a certain part of a game, and at that point, I wouldn't want to play it again for the day, hack or not.
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