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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:28 am 
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Guys I bought a new 70" Vizio 4k television on the 22nd of October. It does not recognize the traditional plugs into the composite side even though my old 50 inch Vizio 1080p tv does. I bought a composite to hdmi converter and the picture looks great on most games, but with slight bounce. Super Bomberman 2 menus bounce, Road Rash 64 menus bounce, and games like Zelda for the NES really bounce. Best Buy claims that there is no way to run a traditional system on a new tv but that does not seem accurate. Can anyone suggest anything that might help me out? I have approximately 5 days before my 14 day return policy runs out. I love the new tv, it looks absolutely breath taking on a Xbox One S, but classic gaming is just as important to me.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:05 am 
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https://www.amazon.com/DP3913515-Framem ... B006H39XJS

Well you did have money to blow on a 4K TV so...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:07 am 
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For classic systems get a CRT tv. Or you can play them via emulation on a 4k tv.

What I mean is, they weren't made for these tvs and these manufactures don't care about making these tvs compatible with 20 year old systems. It's sad.

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Last edited by nesrocks on Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:15 am 
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nesrocks wrote:
For classic systems get a CRT tv.

Who still makes or even repairs those? I called a TV repair shop when my last CRT died, but they said they no longer had the parts to repair a CRT TV.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:17 am 
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tepples wrote:
nesrocks wrote:
For classic systems get a CRT tv.

Who still makes or even repairs those? I called a TV repair shop when my last CRT died, but they said they no longer had the parts to repair a CRT TV.

Here in Brazil you can get a CRT tv for nothing everywhere (people are giving them away). I don't know the situation elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:26 am 
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For now, the best option seems to be keeping a CRT TV around exclusively for retro gaming, but it's true that eventually it won't be possible to repair them anymore. As for composite to HDMI converters, the consensus is that only the XRGB Mini, which is prohibitively expensive for many people, is capable of correctly handling the signals generated by old consoles and computers.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:35 am 
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I can play games pretty well. Such as Road Rash 64. The game plays perfectly fine its just the menu seems to bounce a little. Bomberman 2 SNES plays perfectly fine except the menu and the top left hand corner of the score board has a little bounce as well. Games like Zelda NES however the entire screen really bounces.

Whats your guys thoughts on why a 70" 4k vizio does not recognize rca plugs but my 50 inch 1080p Vizio does?

Also thoughts on buying a Retron 5? I can get one for as low as $139.99 at Game Stop and use all sorts of store credit trade ins ect to help pad the bill just for games that do not play well on a 4k.
http://www.gamestop.com/consoles/retron ... tem/128223


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:39 am 
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Because the RetroN 5 is based on emulation technology, it has to dump an entire NES game to RAM before playing it. In order to do this, it is believed to recognize a game's mapper by dumping its fixed bank and comparing its hash value to those of known games. (This differs from Holy Diver Batman's approach of recognizing a mapper through the behavior of its nametable mirroring registers.) Thus it may require firmware updates to play new NES games released after Wario's Woods.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:24 am 
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NYMike wrote:
I can play games pretty well. Such as Road Rash 64. The game plays perfectly fine its just the menu seems to bounce a little. Bomberman 2 SNES plays perfectly fine except the menu and the top left hand corner of the score board has a little bounce as well. Games like Zelda NES however the entire screen really bounces.

Is the aspect ratio correct? Aren't there any interlacing issues when the screen scrolls or when sprites blink?

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Whats your guys thoughts on why a 70" 4k vizio does not recognize rca plugs but my 50 inch 1080p Vizio does?

I believe this is the tendency. Cable television has gone fully digital, so have camcorders, VCRs are gone, and DVD/Blu-Ray players have had HDMI output for a good while. There's little reason for TVs to continue supporting composite video. The only people who still need it are us retro gaming nerds, and that's a very niche crowd that TV manufacturers really don't give a damn about.

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Also thoughts on buying a Retron 5?

If you're OK with emulation and you think the price is fair, go for it. Personally, I'd much rather get a Raspberry Pi if I decided to go the emulation route. More systems supported, ROM files are used directly (i.e. no firmware updates needed to play new games), and so on.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:53 am 
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NYMike wrote:
Guys I bought a new 70" Vizio 4k television on the 22nd of October. It does not recognize the traditional plugs into the composite side even though my old 50 inch Vizio 1080p tv does. I bought a composite to hdmi converter and the picture looks great on most games, but with slight bounce. Super Bomberman 2 menus bounce, Road Rash 64 menus bounce, and games like Zelda for the NES really bounce. Best Buy claims that there is no way to run a traditional system on a new tv but that does not seem accurate. Can anyone suggest anything that might help me out? I have approximately 5 days before my 14 day return policy runs out. I love the new tv, it looks absolutely breath taking on a Xbox One S, but classic gaming is just as important to me.

Someone suggested the Framemeister Mini. It is really quite a good upscaler for old video games, though it costs as much as a modern game console. It's hard to do any better than it without HDMI built into the console (e.g. Retro AVS).

As for 4k TVs and gaming, this is probably not a good idea in general. The TV market is always primarily focused on non-interactive video. 4K requires more processing power to prepare the screen, and it's newer technology, which I have no doubt means more problems with lag etc. when it comes to games. (I could be wrong about this, though, and I'm sure it varies from model to model, some might actually have a gaming focus in mind.)

If I was looking for a TV, I'd probably spend the money on a good 1080p TV instead that has been reviewed well with a gaming perspective. (Personally, I don't really understand the concept of "4K" in a consumer television, even at 70".)


You keep saying "bounce", what does that mean, exactly? What is a menu that bounces?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:35 pm 
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Expecting 262.5 hsyncs per vsync but getting 262 could cause the scanline counter in the TV to drift out of sync with that in the PPU until it gets so far off that the TV instantly snaps the picture back into sync. I've seen this cumulative error followed by instant snapping back happen even on some brands of CRT.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:41 pm 
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I get this kind of "bounce" on my CRT when I connect consoles through the RF port (it doesn't happen on composite), which is the only option for the top loader NES and the Master System II (III in Brazil).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:08 pm 
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I would like to post a video here online to show what its doing. Is there any easy way to do it without making a video, uploading it to Youtube and then posting here?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:22 pm 
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Do you have web space anywhere?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:29 pm 
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OK so I took a few videos and my camera has a extremely hard time picking up on the errors. I fooled with the settings on the TV a bit and its not as noticeable off the vivid setting and full screen stretched image. The owner of my local retro store bought a new 4k tv for his Xbox One S as well (completely different model and manufacturer) and hooked his system up through the coax and has slight pixelization as well on certain games. I guess its just the nature of the beast when dealing with 4k.

I am going to try to get my hands on a coax to hdmi converter and see what happens. I would say a good 85-90% of games play ok its just certain load screens and menus. Eventually I guess I will have to pick up a system like the Retron 5 or give up and stop using cartridges and just go emulation.


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