It is currently Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:19 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:09 am
Posts: 274
calima wrote:
FWIW I'm on Linux, on a Phenom II x6, with very little other things running (browser, music).

It's just as bad on Linux, I can assure you. Worse even, because Linux graphics drivers are a total clusterfuck, closed or open.

Also, my last AMD laptop was physically incapable of smooth video playback unless I locked the CPU frequency. YMMV.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:28 pm
Posts: 3192
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Had an opportunity to check this out on actual hardware using a standard NTSC Final Fantasy cartridge. Systems tested:

- NTSC NES, front-loader: no lag/oddities
- NTSC NES, top-loader: no lag/oddities
- AVS: no lag/oddities as best I can tell1

All tests were done wandering around outside the first city/castle, focusing primarily on vertical movement. The reason I chose *outside* the city/castle was because there aren't additional sprites or "stuff going on" (i.e. actual game lag per se). I then did the same test inside the castle -- again, no lag/oddities. I have a pretty good eye for this type of thing; "It's as if it randomly takes two frames instead of one" is something I would definitely be able to notice (keep reading).

So as rainwarrior said, you're either going to have to be more precise as to what "lag" means and what to look for, somehow provide video footage of the problem (which is very hard to do for several reasons), or just be as detailed as possible.

If I had to take a guess, it'd probably be caused by one of several subjects already discussed. Getting perfectly smooth A/V sync on Windows is, from what I can discern, nearly an impossibility. Occasional "skipping" or "stuttering" in emulators on Windows is, sorry to say, pretty commonplace, especially in windowed mode. There are a *lot* of things going on under the hood (things like variable CPU clock frequencies, and power-saving states don't help things much). James was fighting with this exact thing in his emulator (nemulator) for some time (ref 1 (and scroll down to see subsequent related posts -- the screenshots of timing synchronisation are useful), ref 2, ref 3), and I'm glad that I was able to talk him out of changing the power profile settings in Windows + he found the proper implementation. :)

1: I don't have an HDMI TV, so I had to use my USB3HDCAP device alongside OBS Studio, capturing and displaying at 60fps.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:59 pm
Posts: 1304
Well, as I already said: There's a 100 % sure way to find out whether it's the emulator/Windows/DirectX/whatever or whether it's the game:

Just record the gameplay with an emulator (not as a video file, but as a controller input file) and then play it back.
Pause the game and play it frame by frame. Then you will see if the lagging part is actually lagging or if it's just the computer output.

_________________
Available now: My game "City Trouble".
Website: https://megacatstudios.com/products/city-trouble
Trailer: https://youtu.be/IYXpP59qSxA
Gameplay: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
German Retro Gamer article: http://i67.tinypic.com/345o108.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 5539
Location: Canada
Some emulators have an option to use your hardware vsync for timing vs. the accurate NES nonstandard timing. If you're using NES accurate timing, there will be regular hiccups where it needs to catch up a frame. The only way to avoid this is to have the emulator use an inaccurate timing. (Note: the emulation does not have to be inaccurate, it can still emulate the correct number of cycles per frame, merely the rate at which it displays frames will need to be adjusted to match the hardware output-- this may require a slight detune of sound output too.)

My HD television does this too with the NES. Basically once every 40 seconds it skips two frames to get re-aligned with the NES' nonstandard timing, and it makes stuff that is scrolling smoothly appear to have a bump in it.

If you're seeing this effect though, it should be present in every game, not just Final Fantasy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:16 am
Posts: 492
Yeah, it happened more often than once per 40s, more like once per 5-10s. It's the emulator(s), thanks to koitsu too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Posts: 9893
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
A while ago I noticed that my laptop had a lot of skipped frames in emulators, so I checked my video settings and the refresh rate was set to a really weird 40Hz, which I had never seen before. I changed it to 60Hz and everything was fine.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:28 pm
Posts: 3192
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
calima wrote:
Yeah, it happened more often than once per 40s, more like once per 5-10s. It's the emulator(s), thanks to koitsu too.

Give Mesen (emulator) a try. At least for me, I don't see as much trouble with the synchronisation using that vs. FCEUX or NestopiaUE.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 5539
Location: Canada
calima wrote:
Yeah, it happened more often than once per 40s, more like once per 5-10s. It's the emulator(s), thanks to koitsu too.

That timing was specific to my TV (and it's a vague recollection, I don't remember the exact timing). I remember working it out at some point, but because the TV is interlacing to 30fps the period of the effect was doubled (and the slip is 2 frames at once instead of just 1). Also it might be trying to synch to 59.94 and not 60.00, so there are a bunch of factors that are different vs. what an emulator would be doing. Every 10 seconds might be correct for an emulator?

e.g. 60.1 fps displayed on 60.0 fps hardware would have to drop 1 frame every 10 seconds.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 5539
Location: Canada
By the way, if you think the problem is your emulator and not Final Fantasy specifically, try Tepples' 240p ROM:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=13394

The scrolling grid test should be perfectly smooth if you have no dropped frames. Also the problem could manifest as missing dots in the stopwatch test.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group