Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

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Drew Sebastino
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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by Drew Sebastino » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:37 pm

Reading your idea, when you say "that nobody could navigate at full throttle", are you talking about the turns come up on you as fast as an F-Zero GX TAS and you can't react, or the car just can't handle quite fast enough? (which is almost never a problem of GX, as you can either quick turn or MTS out of basically any turn.) Your idea seems better to me now, like you make it to where you can go even faster than even tricks allow without doing any if you could somehow handle it, being able to focus only on making turns. What you could then do to add to the idea, is completely remove any sort of top speed or have the player able to gimp it for the sake of being able to control the vehicle. Thus, you'd actually make the acceleration vs top speed useless again. What I would instead do, is have the vehicles balance between acceleration (like I said, no top speed unless you want to set one) and handling (not maneuverability; you should be able to run through the course without ever letting off the break if it's a TAS), but have it to where these attributes are locked to the vehicle. I'd make it to where you can set top speed every race though.

I'd really like to see this idea in an actual demo or something; it could be either extremely good, or extremely bad.
93143 wrote:It's been suggested that Story Mode could expand beyond racing into a kind of bounty hunter action game. I wonder if that would dilute the brand too much, or if it's a logical development. It would have to be really really good...
I'd like to see Grand Theft Zero, or something, where you can go around as Captain Falcon in Mute City and beat the shit out of people. :lol: It would be like if you could play the cutscenes in F-Zero GX, driving around to the places listed to start the racing part of the game but are able to do sidequest type stuff that maybe doesn't involve racing, or at least just doesn't advance the story. I think this might work for an F-Zero game; you would just leave everything other than Story Mode intact. (only F-Zero GX even has story mode, so a sort of alternate game mode like this wouldn't be too intrusive I don't think.)
Rahsennor wrote:200cc is the first time I've ever had to slow down, and it's not because of turn rate
Have fun breaking in F-Zero GX. A lot. In the case of tricks, A LOT.

This is how it goes, roughly (from fastest to slowest categories):

Legendary Speed: F-Zero GX TAS.
Ridiculous Speed: F-Zero X TAS, F-Zero GX tricks
Very Fast Speed: F-Zero X tricks, F-Zero GX
Fast Speed: 200cc, F-Zero X

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by 93143 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:54 pm

tepples wrote:By braking fills the boost meter, did you mean "Kirby Air Ride"?
No (I've never played it), but looking on YouTube there does seem to be something similar happening.
Espozo wrote:Reading your idea, when you say "that nobody could navigate at full throttle", are you talking about the turns come up on you as fast as an F-Zero GX TAS and you can't react, or the car just can't handle quite fast enough?
The latter.

The scenario I'm looking at is roughly as follows:

1) head into a tight hairpin turn at high speed
2) brake to a significantly lower speed, causing your boost/shield meter to increase somewhat (as long as it isn't already full), while simultaneously hauling your machine around the corner with the main stick augmented by skillful use of both shoulder buttons (ie: best technique is barely adequate at this reduced speed)
3) after making the turn, hit the boost button long enough to expend the shield energy you gained by braking, which is less than the kinetic energy you bled off by braking (ie: the regenerator is not 100% efficient) and results in even less kinetic energy being added back to the machine (ie: the booster is not 100% efficient either)

One might expect the energy gained from braking to run out before you manage to return to the speed you were at before braking, but this isn't an absolute physical requirement, because as you come out of the turn the baseline engine output is already accelerating you, so the booster energy doesn't have to make up 100% of the braking energy in the time it takes to push it back out through the engines. On the other hand, aerodynamic drag does a fair bit of braking and you can't recover that, so it's a matter of what the ratios are like...

Either way, the upshot is that it makes slowing down for the turns less painful because you can speed back up more quickly afterwards without a net loss to your shield gauge (and it helps you feel cool for pulling off the maneuver, hopefully). It's not about exploiting turns to go faster than you could drive in a straight line.

This idea seems like it could take a fair bit of tweaking and still remain a workable gameplay mechanic. As long as it isn't exploitable and doesn't result in players cheesing straightaways by alternately boosting and braking or some nonsense, it should be fine... and the best way I know of to prevent that is to observe the Law of Conservation of Energy.

...

I'm not sure I like this talk of removing the top speed. Unless you're driving in space, which makes the obvious air inlets on F-Zero machines kinda mysterious, simple aerodynamic drag will impose a top speed regardless of how the engines work - it's like terminal velocity when falling. I know F-Zero isn't a physics sim (yet - heh heh heh), but an in-atmosphere vehicle with no top speed is a bit too much for my suspension of disbelief...

...

...say. Could that right stick possibly serve as a throttle? Pushing it forward would accelerate your machine, pulling it back would brake. Moving it to one side would, uh... thrust vectoring? This could get complicated, and I'm not sure it doesn't step on the toes of the left stick and triggers...
Last edited by 93143 on Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by Drew Sebastino » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:09 am

No, there'd still be a top speed; it's 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 km/h :lol:

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by lidnariq » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:12 am

Aww, I was hoping you'd just expressed c in km/hr instead. (Which is roughly 1.08e9 kph)

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by Drew Sebastino » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:22 am

Nah, you can already go 2,147,483,647 km/h in F-Zero GX, about twice as fast as that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McjdJjCYaXg

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by Pokun » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:20 am

I kind of wish Mario Kart and F-Zero didn't focus so much on these cheesy speed boosts. But on the other hand you can still beat them without ever learning "Snaking" or "Momentum Throttle" and just stick to "real driving techniques". But it breaks online playing.
Espozo wrote:
Pokun wrote:I agree with Espozo that it's time for another F-Zero that can compete with F-Zero X
You mean F-Zero GX? There were the two Gameboy Advance games after F-Zero GX, but I don't count those for a couple reasons. (Whoever though turning a game into a TV show and back into a game is an idiot, not that this type of thing hasn't been done before though.)
No I meant X. It's the game in the series I played and enjoyed the most. I liked F-Zero GX too though, especially story mode.
tepples wrote:
Pokun wrote:But what about Donkey Kong and Mario Bros? Mario was a carpenter, and later plumber
Mario Mario Sr., sometimes known by his rap name "Jumpman", was a carpenter. His sons Mario Mario Jr. and Luigi Mario are plumbers, and he's got a granddaughter named Rosalina. It's just a theory.
Ugh this is why one shouldn't try to make the Mario series too logical. :)
But modern Donkey Kong in DKC was supposed to be an adult Donkey Kong Jr rather than his son according to Rare.
WheelInventor wrote:I feel 1 2 Switch is a game that is mostly there to demonstrate what the joycon and the portability brings to the table, and as such, i think it should be a pack-in.
Yeah this is basically Wii Play/Sports/Party for Switch. ARMS seems to be a little more than a new Wii Boxing.
I don't care for the looks of 1 2 Switch though. Couldn't they just use Mii characters as always? Come to think of it, Nintendo showed nothing Mii-related at all. Maybe they are aiming for a different market.
koitsu wrote:
Espozo wrote:You're saying they can't match F-Zero GX? :lol:
No. Think about what you're asking, re: "reviving a beloved franchise". There is no way to "revive" such a thing and have it take on the exact same feeling as the original. Do you really want me to start listing off horribly failed "reboots" of classic games, as well as films? (They both suffer from the same driving force, and the same failure)
Well it's not like F-Zero GX is very old so it's not so much about reviving the series as just making another sequel. No need to reboot anything.
Star Fox and Pikmin recently got a sequel already so it's getting F-Zero's turn.
Espozo wrote:
93143 wrote:It's been suggested that Story Mode could expand beyond racing into a kind of bounty hunter action game. I wonder if that would dilute the brand too much, or if it's a logical development. It would have to be really really good...
I'd like to see Grand Theft Zero, or something, where you can go around as Captain Falcon in Mute City and beat the shit out of people. :lol: It would be like if you could play the cutscenes in F-Zero GX, driving around to the places listed to start the racing part of the game but are able to do sidequest type stuff that maybe doesn't involve racing, or at least just doesn't advance the story. I think this might work for an F-Zero game; you would just leave everything other than Story Mode intact. (only F-Zero GX even has story mode, so a sort of alternate game mode like this wouldn't be too intrusive I don't think.)
You are crazy! :) Captain Falcon is supposed to be a hero! But yeah I really think they should expand on the Story Mode. Ever since reading the little introductory comic in the first F-Zero, I'd wanted to know more about the space opera world it takes place in. That's why Story Mode in GX (and Falcon Densetsu, although the anime timeline is slightly different) was so great.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by Drew Sebastino » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:42 am

I just found something important about the Nintendo Switch. For a minute, I forgot that's what this thread was about. :lol:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/14/nin ... -miiverse/ (basically, no more miiverse)

Damn it, Nintendo! :cry:

I guess they got tired of this :lol::

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by rainwarrior » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:38 pm

Aww, Miiverse was honestly one of the best parts of Splatoon.

I also liked it for Wind Waker HD selfies, and I had fun just leaving random sketches as comments in Mario Maker.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by Drew Sebastino » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:23 pm

Agreed. Miiverse was great everywhere, (I loved the Super Smash Bros stage) but Splatoon especially so. :lol:

Image

The only reason I can think of that they're getting rid of it for is that they wanted it to be for sharing "hints" and "strategies" or whatever (or they just don't want kids seeing a close up of an Inkling's ass covered in ink). They should have known better. Then again, this is the same company that expects you to pay them for uploading gameplay footage to YouTube.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by Drew Sebastino » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:21 am

Nintendo has officially fallen to Apple-level greed: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/ ... 73ef83559a

I'll just list the prices here:

Joy Con Grip (The one with the system is only a plastic shell and can't charge, go figure.) - $30
Pro Controller - $70
Joy Con (individual) - $50
Joy Cons - $80
Switch Dock - $90
Snipperclips (whatever game this is, I'll just post it because it was in the article) - $20
1 2 Switch - $50
ARMS - $60

Holy shit, Nintendo! You're telling me, that if I want another set of Joy Cons with a grip, it's going to cost me over 1/3 the price of the whole system? Why even bother at that point? You might as well already overpriced Pro Controller, unless you really want to play ARMS (Edit: Screw that, you don't even have to: http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01/16/ ... n-controls). The switch dock is also really overpriced (it's a plastic box with fans in it, give me a break) but I don't care because it's not like it's difficult to move the whole thing. This is the one I think they truly messed up on. Had they charged $40, (the thing can't cost more than that to manufacture) I think people might actually buy one or two of them. At $90? No; they'll just do what I'm going to if they want to play on another TV. $50 for what should have been a pack-in title is ridiculous, and although I'm not surprised in the slightest, ARMS which wouldn't be out of place in a minigame collection for $60 is just as bad (to me. If you can't already tell, I'm not a fan of this game.)

Is it bad that I'm actually hoping this thing has a 3DS-level launch? :lol: For $300, you should be getting the charging grip and 1 2 Switch. I just pray that by "summer", they have some sort of pack in.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by tepples » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:02 am

I agree that this is probably a soft launch. It could be to fill the retail channel so that the shortages seen in the the N64, Wii, and NES Classic Edition launches don't happen again, with a full-on marketing blitz in November.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by Drew Sebastino » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:29 am

I agree; the Wii U is as dead as a door nail. I did find it interesting that they shipped less units than they did with the Wii U, like they know the launch is going to be bad.

...And Gamestop is already sold out from pre orders... http://www.polygon.com/nintendo-switch/ ... ray-market

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by Pokun » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:48 am

Yeah well I think 1 2 Switch and ARMS are are made basically to demonstrate the new hardware just like Wii Play and Wii Sports or Pilotwings for Snes. Doesn't mean they will be bad though, Wii Sports and Pilotwings were great games.

I'm moderately interested in ARMS (on the other hand I don't see what's so fun about multiplayer only ink shooting). I'm worried how well my karate techniques will translate into the game though. In my style of karate we twist our arm during a standard punch in order to increase force, but in ARMS twisting seems to mean that you will throw a curve punch. So my habit of twisting might not work out as I want.

As for the prices, yeah this is the same situation as for the Wii. The Wii was a cheap console due to it being not as powerful as Sony's and Microsoft's. But the money is in the peripherals. If you wanted to buy all the necessary perihperals (extra remocons, nunchaku, classic controller, Wii motion plus, extra Gamecube controllers etc) it would cost almost like a PS3 anyway.
Espozo wrote: Joy Con Grip (The one with the system is only a plastic shell and can't charge, go figure.) - $30
I thought I read somewhere that the original Grip can only charge while plugged in, while the Charge Grip has batteries and can charge them even when not plugged in. But now I read that's not the case. Hmm...

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by calima » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:44 am

It didn't take long for third-party controllers to appear, though. I guess I paid around 15 per chinese Wii controller including motion plus and nunchuk, and third-party GC accessories were naturally already there.

In other news, I finally got an used WiiU, but damn are they still going for a lot. I paid 150 for mine, when my target was 100.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Livestreem...

Post by Pokun » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:40 am

The price in Japan is even worse, they go for around $500 new. I thought I would save money by importing one as I did by buying a Japanese 3DS, and because I don't want to miss out on Japanese exclusives due to the region locking, but the Wii U is actually more expensive in Japan than in Europe. I guess they don't sell it bellow manufacturing price over there. Hopefully they will go down now when the Switch is coming.
calima wrote:It didn't take long for third-party controllers to appear, though. I guess I paid around 15 per chinese Wii controller including motion plus and nunchuk, and third-party GC accessories were naturally already there.
Except that third-party controllers more often than not are of very bad quality compared to Nintendo's. My brother bought Chinese Wiimote remocon knock-offs of surprisingly good quality, but the speakers inside them where horribly bad so he had to dissconnect them. Useless crap.

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