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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:31 am 
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I suppose I understand the idea that a lot of people install stuff in a haphazard way, especially constantly resident "helpers" and "updaters", and malicious stuff like browser toolbars, etc. and it also makes some sense that this happens to people more readily/quickly on Windows than Linux just from the ecosystem involved. I guess the idea of starting from a clean slate every now and then works from that perspective.

Myself, I check the running tasks, make sure I'm not running stuff in the background unnecessarily, and generally clean up after things. Part of it's just that I use a laptop most of the time, and spikes in performance can result in very audible fan noise, so if something starts running unexpectedly I'm often tipped off to its existence by that annoyance.

I could see how maintaining Windows properly requires a lot of acquired experience, and a reformat might be easier. I'd rather maintain it incrementally, though. I don't find it behaves oddly or slowly, even after years of use.

Maintaining Linux properly also requires a lot of acquired experience, IMO. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:36 am 
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For one thing, wih cheap windows laptops, you pay with your time by having to restore the mess acer or some other company has preinstalled "for you" right out of the box, sometimes having to figure out what's essential and what's named to look like it's essential. :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:50 am 
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Hah! I've seen similar crap preinstalled on a Linux laptop too. :P

Don't forget for a long time Ubuntu's standard install put an Amazon.com program on your launcher.


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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:17 am 
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But does Ubuntu silently leave cat doodoo behind the couch which you find only after the guests have arrived? That's an analogy for windows update sometimes deciding what's best for you, like when it appearently changed my dpi settings without leaving a memo. A "sorry i ate your cookies" would be nice. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:22 am 
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Sounds like Ubuntu switching from GNOME 2 to Unity in 11.10, dropping scrollbar arrows from the default themes in Xubuntu with no point-and-click preference to restore them to the included theme, adding Poetterix, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Also, I didn't want to imply that Ubuntu's flirtation with Amazon.com sponsorship was anywhere near as bad as a lot of stuff that Windows does by default.

I have anecdotes for bad Linux updates, and more anecdotes for bad Windows updates, but I don't think they're important, just that I find neither is hassle-free, and I never expect them to be. I'm not sure which one I think is worse, because I don't use them both the same amount, so I can't really make a fair comparison.

I can do most of what I want on Linux already, but there's still a fair bit of software (especially games) that isn't available there. As well, being a software developer, Windows is still the biggest market and the most viable target, so that kinda forces it. I don't pick an OS for ideological reasons, I just pick it cause the stuff I want to do lives there.

If I was in a slightly different line of work, or was a little less interested in particular games, I'd probably just use Linux. I do like it better as an OS in a lot of ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland
I'm pretty sure there is at least 1 or maybe even more long thread(s) about this matter, including one I started. You should use the search function.

dougeff wrote:
So you're compiling cc65? There's no binary I can download?

Haha, obviously you're coming from the windows world. That's exactly the type of reflexions I'd have made some 5 years ago. However compiling programs locally is a fairly standard practice in linux - even when you aren't in any way related to the development of the program itself.

Quote:
OS change is a big decision, so I appreciate the help.

You don't have to *change* anything. It's in my opinion not possible to simply change to linux and never look back again ever because it's just too different so you'll miss features from windos and have to regularly switch between the two. Eventually as your linux knowledge will mature you'll be able to do more and more things and rely less and less on windows.

The biggest difference in my opinion is that things works much less "out of the box" and that you're supposed to customize your system yourself editing system files if you want to do anything remotely non standard (this includes making a wi-fi work or printing something).

The biggest Linux selling point is that you have a huge shitload of software which is completely free and open, and you can do pretty much anyhting with is, so this is really the amazing part. You can also get many GNU software for Windows, I encourage people to use GNU software even when they're not on Linux because it makes sense.

Quote:
I'm thinking of loading Linux (light) Ubuntu on it...

Ubuntu is horrible. I recommand using Debian, or any other distribution than Ubuntu :) Debian has the same package manager as Ubuntu (apt) so you'll still be able to use Ubuntu doccumentation and it'll still apply to Debian but your system is going to be much better and stablier.

Quote:
As a programmer (not just NES), what programs should I consider installing on a Linux system?

Well, gcc, make and a text editor such as gedit or kate (or vi if you want to do it the hardcore way) seems the absolute minimum. And a web browser. Most distros comes with those built-in.


Quote:
I didn't see anyone say 'Don't do it', but that might just be unique to NESDEV...plenty of Linux users.

Actually Nesdev and romhacking are horrible on Linux. There's fewer emulators, and those that do have less debug features. This is actually the primary reason I still use Windows. Note that modern windowses such as 8 or 10 are just as horrible - tools for romhacking and the like were mostly designed in the Windows 98 or XP days.


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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Bregalad wrote:
Actually Nesdev and romhacking are horrible on Linux. There's fewer emulators, and those that do have less debug features. This is actually the primary reason I still use Windows. Note that modern windowses such as 8 or 10 are just as horrible - tools for romhacking and the like were mostly designed in the Windows 98 or XP days.

All the Nesdev tools I know run great under Wine, including FCEUX and Nintendulator. Perhaps not as great as they would run natively, but still, they do work.


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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Wine is fine for people with an x86-64 PC who are willing to install both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of system libraries, such as myself. But keep in mind that a dependency on Wine prevents you from keeping your system completely 64-bit or migrating to ARM should the circumstances encourage it.


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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:53 am 
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The lack of out-of-box support for 32+64 bit is an interesting thing about Linux to me. I get it, keeps the bloat down not having to double the libraries (like Windows or Mac does), and when most of the software is open source then getting separate builds for the different distributions is not too much of a problem.

On the other side of it, though, trying to build and deploy closed source binaries becomes weird. Setting up all the dependencies for a 32+64 bit dev environment on a single machine is hairy. Some things like SDL also muddy the waters by trying to auto-detect what's in your build environment and only including those things in its setup.

Like, eventually I found it a whoooole lot easier just to create a 32-bit VM and build there, instead of trying to build both from a 64-bit OS.


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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Fisher wrote:
Then I tried Conectiva, then Mandrake, then Mandriva and stopped at Ubuntu.
I really missed the old Gnome interface, but I become happy with Mate!

I'm using Ubuntu 14.04 (my son says it's not worth updating to 16.04), and I had him put the Gnome Flashback Compiz GUI back on it. I want the tabs along the bottom with a bit of text in each, so for example if I have three .pdf's open and am slowly working on a couple of emails, they show what they are instead of just being little arrows beside icons down the left edge. I did not like the Unity GUI at all. It required too many clicks.

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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:23 am 
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I've had to reinstall Arch one time, because I let my friend into my system with root and he ran "rm -rf --no-preserve-root /" and it nuked it, bad. But I've had to reinstall Ubuntu and Mint years ago when they decided to send out borking packages that couldn't resolve and broke everything. AUR in Arch is a much, much better and cleaner system to pulling in deps that aren't standard, and it works amazing if you have the PC to compile some things easily. I do still use Mint on my laptop, though, it's alright for browsing the web and using sublime and such.


Also, you can make a git repo on bitbucket that's private and shove all your configs there, too. But I've never tried using that to back up my configuration stuff, I just reconfigure on installs. Most of my config isn't in my home folder, besides a few alias's and such. But still, Linux is a puzzle. Windows is an enigma. And Window's days are numbered, thankfully.


Still, for a real good Linux desktop, we need Ubuntu to stop working on Mir and their "proprietary" crap. We need clarity, and people are still trying to fuck it up. It's stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:59 am 
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3gengames wrote:
I let my friend into my system with root and he ran "rm -rf --no-preserve-root /" and it nuked it, bad.

Naturally said friend is now in two pieces?


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 Post subject: Re: Linux, yes or no ?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:05 pm 
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Ok. I installed Mint on my old computer. Seems to work great. You have no idea how slow XP ran on it. Clicking on 'My computer' took 10 seconds before it showed anything in the window.

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