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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:10 am 
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do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good for the ultra hdmi and the gamecube hdmi?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:29 am 
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Shiny things for the stupid, like gold-plated Monster cables.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:32 am 
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An upscaler inside an HDMI cable? That's weird.
Attachment:
mcable_demo.jpg
mcable_demo.jpg [ 82.42 KiB | Viewed 1329 times ]

If you like the result of pixel art scaling algorithms on games then maybe you'll like it. Personally I hate it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:16 pm 
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calima wrote:
Shiny things for the stupid, like gold-plated Monster cables.


i don't know it has anti alasing and 1ms input lag and is supposed to be at a much more affordable price. what if it does what they say it does then what?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:17 pm 
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rainwarrior wrote:
An upscaler inside an HDMI cable? That's weird.
Attachment:
mcable_demo.jpg

If you like the result of pixel art scaling algorithms on games then maybe you'll like it. Personally I hate it.


no i mean for 3d games not for 2d. i have to agree on 2d again 2d it will look awful


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:13 pm 
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I don't like any artificial upscaling like that, whether it's for movies or 3D games or 2D doesn't make a difference in my opinion. If something is going to be upscaled, I want it to do it in a very plain and simple way that isn't trying to "intelligently" add detail.

The same problems you have with shapes in 2D pixel art still apply to these kinds of algorithms for other kinds of video. Shapes get misidentified, blob together, etc. it often looks a little strange in motion, etc. I think it's a terrible idea.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:50 pm 
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so this is crap then? http://www.marseilleinc.com/img/mcable_ ... aption.jpg and this http://www.marseilleinc.com/img/mcable_ ... aption.jpg and this http://www.marseilleinc.com/img/mcable_ ... chmark.jpg and this? www.marseilleinc.com/img/mcable_game_cxaa.jpg


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:30 pm 
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You can't add antialiasing after the video has already been rendered. The data isn't there.

You can add blur.
You can add motion blur. (GTA: Vice City uses this extensively and it looks awful... but maybe? less awful than not having it at all)
You can do fancy things like Eagle or 2xSaI.
You can do fancier things like "encode the video using MPEG4 with motion estimation, and when decoding render to a higher resolution framebuffer and use the fractional part of motion data to render something that is pedantically higher resolution", but that adds a huge amount of latency.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:33 pm 
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lidnariq wrote:
You can't add antialiasing after the video has already been rendered. The data isn't there.

Then what's xBRZ, Waifu2x, or morphological antialiasing (MLAA)? All attempt to recognize edge shapes in local neighborhoods and trace them in a way that minimizes visible jaggedness without blurring the edges more than FSAA/MSAA would already have.

Quote:
You can do fancy things like Eagle or 2xSaI.

That's what this appears to be doing.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:53 pm 
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tepples wrote:
lidnariq wrote:
You can't add antialiasing after the video has already been rendered. The data isn't there.
Then what's xBRZ, Waifu2x, [...] recognize edge shapes in local neighborhoods and trace them in a way that minimizes both visible jaggedness without blurring the edges more than FSAA/MSAA would already have.
Those aren't antialiasing. Antialiasing requires a technique that can actually accurately detect and ameliorate aliases due to sampling. If it has to guess what the geometry was that produced the image, it's not antialiasing.

Quote:
That retains and passes down geometry information from the rendering stage, which is the distinction I'm making: Whether the algorithm has to guess, and therefore can (and will be sometimes) wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:09 pm 
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The question then becomes one of whether subjective visual improvement due to right guesses outweighs artifacts due to wrong guesses.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:31 pm 
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tepples wrote:
The question then becomes one of whether subjective visual improvement due to right guesses outweighs artifacts due to wrong guesses.

No, that's not the question. There is no "right guess"; there is no data there to be guessed at all.

It a question of whether the fictional additions to the image are acceptable, or even necessary at all.

Even if you were trying to tune your algorithm by comparing a downsampled version against a multisample source, the closest match to the original is not really the right metric to use. There's a lot of tradeoffs involved when thinking also about temporal coherence, etc. but with upscalers like this the goal is not trying to recover the original picture. It's about trying to come up with a plausible lie.

This is not a signal recovery algorithm. That's the most irksome part of Marseille's marketing to me, where they start talking about presenting it "as the director originally intended", "restoring depth of field", "preserved textures", etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:03 pm 
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I have a bit of experience with edge directed interpolation. It looks really nice, but it creates snakes everywhere.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:24 am 
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MLAA also has a pure image mode, without the edge information. It does look nice in places, but it also blurs text, etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:59 am 
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calima wrote:
MLAA also has a pure image mode, without the edge information. It does look nice in places, but it also blurs text, etc.


oh :(


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