do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

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supermario4
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do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by supermario4 »

do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good for the ultra hdmi and the gamecube hdmi?
calima
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by calima »

Shiny things for the stupid, like gold-plated Monster cables.
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rainwarrior
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by rainwarrior »

An upscaler inside an HDMI cable? That's weird.
mcable_demo.jpg
If you like the result of pixel art scaling algorithms on games then maybe you'll like it. Personally I hate it.
supermario4
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by supermario4 »

calima wrote:Shiny things for the stupid, like gold-plated Monster cables.
i don't know it has anti alasing and 1ms input lag and is supposed to be at a much more affordable price. what if it does what they say it does then what?
supermario4
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by supermario4 »

rainwarrior wrote:An upscaler inside an HDMI cable? That's weird.
mcable_demo.jpg
If you like the result of pixel art scaling algorithms on games then maybe you'll like it. Personally I hate it.
no i mean for 3d games not for 2d. i have to agree on 2d again 2d it will look awful
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rainwarrior
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by rainwarrior »

I don't like any artificial upscaling like that, whether it's for movies or 3D games or 2D doesn't make a difference in my opinion. If something is going to be upscaled, I want it to do it in a very plain and simple way that isn't trying to "intelligently" add detail.

The same problems you have with shapes in 2D pixel art still apply to these kinds of algorithms for other kinds of video. Shapes get misidentified, blob together, etc. it often looks a little strange in motion, etc. I think it's a terrible idea.
lidnariq
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by lidnariq »

You can't add antialiasing after the video has already been rendered. The data isn't there.

You can add blur.
You can add motion blur. (GTA: Vice City uses this extensively and it looks awful... but maybe? less awful than not having it at all)
You can do fancy things like Eagle or 2xSaI.
You can do fancier things like "encode the video using MPEG4 with motion estimation, and when decoding render to a higher resolution framebuffer and use the fractional part of motion data to render something that is pedantically higher resolution", but that adds a huge amount of latency.
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by tepples »

lidnariq wrote:You can't add antialiasing after the video has already been rendered. The data isn't there.
Then what's xBRZ, Waifu2x, or morphological antialiasing (MLAA)? All attempt to recognize edge shapes in local neighborhoods and trace them in a way that minimizes visible jaggedness without blurring the edges more than FSAA/MSAA would already have.
You can do fancy things like Eagle or 2xSaI.
That's what this appears to be doing.
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by lidnariq »

tepples wrote:
lidnariq wrote:You can't add antialiasing after the video has already been rendered. The data isn't there.
Then what's xBRZ, Waifu2x, [...] recognize edge shapes in local neighborhoods and trace them in a way that minimizes both visible jaggedness without blurring the edges more than FSAA/MSAA would already have.
Those aren't antialiasing. Antialiasing requires a technique that can actually accurately detect and ameliorate aliases due to sampling. If it has to guess what the geometry was that produced the image, it's not antialiasing.
That retains and passes down geometry information from the rendering stage, which is the distinction I'm making: Whether the algorithm has to guess, and therefore can (and will be sometimes) wrong.
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by tepples »

The question then becomes one of whether subjective visual improvement due to right guesses outweighs artifacts due to wrong guesses.
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rainwarrior
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by rainwarrior »

tepples wrote:The question then becomes one of whether subjective visual improvement due to right guesses outweighs artifacts due to wrong guesses.
No, that's not the question. There is no "right guess"; there is no data there to be guessed at all.

It a question of whether the fictional additions to the image are acceptable, or even necessary at all.

Even if you were trying to tune your algorithm by comparing a downsampled version against a multisample source, the closest match to the original is not really the right metric to use. There's a lot of tradeoffs involved when thinking also about temporal coherence, etc. but with upscalers like this the goal is not trying to recover the original picture. It's about trying to come up with a plausible lie.

This is not a signal recovery algorithm. That's the most irksome part of Marseille's marketing to me, where they start talking about presenting it "as the director originally intended", "restoring depth of field", "preserved textures", etc.
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Dwedit
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by Dwedit »

I have a bit of experience with edge directed interpolation. It looks really nice, but it creates snakes everywhere.
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calima
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by calima »

MLAA also has a pure image mode, without the edge information. It does look nice in places, but it also blurs text, etc.
supermario4
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Re: do you think marseille's gamer m cable will be good?

Post by supermario4 »

calima wrote:MLAA also has a pure image mode, without the edge information. It does look nice in places, but it also blurs text, etc.
oh :(
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