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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:29 am 
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Damn... so they were developing a Metroid 2 remake of their own. I wonder if they realized this had potential after lurking around on AM2R or if they were completely oblivious of the parallel development until they found out?

Anyway, it looks gorgeous. Looks like i need to get a 3ds after all....

There was also a tease/actual confirmation of MP4 being in development for the switch.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Nintendo after years of ignoring fans' requests and cease-and-desisting any tribute or sign of appreciation to them: "wow, wonder why that didn't work. Let's finally make a metroid game worth playing!"

Except they're still doing both of those things. I'm putting off trying to do a disassembly of Super Metroid because I'd be afraid to share it. Well, and also because that's a huge project, but that makes it worse.

I'll probably avoid getting a Switch just because while it would suck to see Nintendo fail, that attitude has to go.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:01 pm 
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I watched the gameplay and... it's clearly using music and sound effects from Metroid Prime. I'd say... it's a Metroid Prime in 2D. Even Samus looks the same. The "missile acquired" fanfare is exactly the same of Prime.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:08 pm 
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Perhaps the way forward for others in nicklausw's situation is to provide a ROM and RAM map with just the variable names, the comments, and other things needed to reconstruct a disassembly (such as code/data splits and MX bit settings). The more you explain about the workings of the engine in your own words, the more clearly your ROM and RAM map would be seen as a "comment" pursuant to 17 USC 107. Then anyone possessing an authentic Game Pak could dump it with a Retrode or similar device (pursuant to 17 USC 117 and Sega v. Accolade) and reconstruct the disassembly from your ROM and RAM map.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Zepper wrote:
[The remake of Metroid II is] clearly using music and sound effects from Metroid Prime. I'd say... it's a Metroid Prime in 2D. Even Samus looks the same. The "missile acquired" fanfare is exactly the same of Prime.

Nintendo is no stranger to asset recycling in its enhanced remakes. Its Super Mario All-Stars remake of Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. 2 (J) borrowed a lot of sound effects from Super Mario World, and its Mario sprites are Super Mario Bros. 3 sprites with more shading added.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:26 am 
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nicklausw wrote:
Nintendo after years of ignoring fans' requests and cease-and-desisting any tribute or sign of appreciation to them: "wow, wonder why that didn't work. Let's finally make a metroid game worth playing!"
(...)
I'll probably avoid getting a Switch just because while it would suck to see Nintendo fail, that attitude has to go.


I don't know what to think. We don't have the details, but even considering it's a business and not a person, historically their handling in this matter has been arrogant, best case, and tasteless, worst case.

That said, nintendo seems to have a short-sighted reaction to when a game sells poorly. Based on their actions, they seem to judge the viability of the franchise on sales figures, rather than doing an analysis of what went right and wrong when a particular instalment in that franchise met the audience. They seem to focus on the wrong questions. It should (among other things) be "Did we approach the expectations of the target audience of buyers?", not just "What's the current popularity of this brand or concept?"

Consider the case if M:SR or MP4 sell poorly because enough burnt fans hypothetically manage to affect the popularity, reviews, and ultimately sales figures of these games based on their recent history (Other M, the cease and desist against AM2R scandal , Federation Force). In such a case, would that be the end of Metroid (for another decade)? I wouldn't want that. Fans didn't want that, which i think was part of why AM2R managed to get a bit of a cult following long prior to the short-lived release (not counting its own merits).

I'm not one to think individual consumption choices have much of an impact (i view them more as useful rituals to keep in touch with one's own moral standards), but on a pattern level, there might be some merit or potential, and i really want nintendo to succeed in reinvigorating this franchise.

I also agree that the attitude has to go, needless to say. Corporate culture can vary a lot and still be successful. They don't need to grope for the low-hanging fruit on the policy tree.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:10 pm 
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After watching the gameplay...

1. It seems a major improvement over the original Metroid 2, much like Metroid Zero Mission.
2. The map seems to have changed a bit. New elements were added, and others were preserved (like the Energy Ball for refills).
3. I have no doubt this game has a new area OR a new event after beating the Queen Metroid.
4. I wonder why Nintendo is using most of the Metroid Prime's music (fanfares) and sound effects. I could risk to say an improved version of the MP gfx engine.
5. Unfortunately, this isn't a 2D game like "Another Metroid 2 Remake" is... but... an idea... much like... Metroid Other M.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:49 am 
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Yeah, they definitely passed on a few mechanics from other m, in slightly new forms. There seems to be a timing balance to the melee moves though? if you get it right, you get to crit, stun or deflect, if you fail the timing, enemy gains advantage over you. Or in the case of lesser metroids, they just smash in to you. If that's how it works, it's an improvement. It did not look as precise and snappy as traditional 2d metroids, but that's another thing to be measured when we can see how the control scheme feels.

The aim was back to manual, right?

Not too sure if i like the new scan. It seems to undermine the feature of providing things to figure out, which has been a central part of the experience and a very important off-screen interaction. Now it's more "cast spell to reveal secrets".

I don't mind recycling assets (especially sfx), as it can help with consistency. Why not reuse a perfectly functioning laser shot sound or a recognizable fanfare? On a budget level, you get to spend it where it matters more.

I liked that they made the zeta feel more like an alien. Somewhere between a lizard and a xenomorph.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:14 am 
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This looks like complete crap. Though I guess that assertment is partly based on the knowledge that these guys also created the abomination known as Castlevania Mirror of Fate, and this game looks very much based on the same ideals. Who the hell figured Metroid needed cinematic finishing moves?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:27 am 
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I think there's a difference, but don't know to which extent it'll have effect. While konami seemingly have adopted an almost lessez faire, don't care treatment of their franchises, nintendo seems much more involved in the details of direction. Many of the things other m got negative reception for can be traced back to decisions made at nintendo. For better or worse, their relation with dev houses isn't as flat-organized.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:25 am 
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Absolutely true, and my hopes for this game are based on the fact that Nintendo's supervision is usually genuinely solid.

The gameplay shown in the demo looks kinda solid, too. But there are a few warnings here and there, that reminds me way too much of some of the atrocities they commited in the name of Konami.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:49 am 
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Regarding the reused sounds, is the game complete yet? I'd bet they threw them in as placeholders and might redo them if there's time before release.

I'm not a big fan of any 3D Metroid (I enjoyed Other M the most) and I don't think 3D graphics works very well in 2D platformers like this. In New Super Mario Bros it feels like you loose some precision for the collision detection. On the other hand it seems to work well in the Smash Bros series.

Metroid 2 was a really great game with a very cool ending though, and I hope this remake will be as good as Zero Mission was.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:32 am 
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Pokun wrote:
Metroid 2 was a really great game with a very cool ending though, and I hope this remake will be as good as Zero Mission was.

I strongly recommend AM2R.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:59 am 
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+1.

if you like zero mission, am2r is much like that but with years of polish only a passionate and skilled hobbyist can provide by spending free time, and based on m2.

It is C&D:ed so you'll need to search for a second hand source.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:07 am 
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rainwarrior wrote:
Pokun wrote:
Metroid 2 was a really great game with a very cool ending though, and I hope this remake will be as good as Zero Mission was.

I strongly recommend AM2R.

This new Metroid will never be like AM2R, which is much superior.
I wonder... A game style like AM2R... must be "replaced" by a 2.5D style, as found in Metroid Samus Return? Is a 2D game (using pixels/buffered graphics) not worth than 2.5D (polygonal graphics)?


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