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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:44 am 
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I like it, I prefer para the most. -Pa is confusing that it is pronounced like pay but spelled totally differently.

The only worry I have about page is that it's often used as a memory chunk (I read somewhere it's the smallest mappable memory chunk in a memory space?) and if it's system specific and not always $100 byte it could conflict with that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:49 am 
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The culture that our guide introduces would have been using "page" to mean $100 since before electronic computers were invented. Words for large numbers and writing emerged at much the same time and for much the same reason, as a way of describing ownership of livestock or other private property.

Don't believe me? Fill a ruled sheet of paper with your handwriting. Count the words.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:11 pm 
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I was thinking the power above page would be bank, but that's a bit misleading given banks can be of pretty much any size.

The words on a page experiment should be conducted in english, right? It might not work in other (european at least) languages since english has a very high number of one-syllable words; cleft, deft, pull, shove, love*. In swedish, that would be klyfta, skicklig, dra (or draga if you're reading a text from the 40s), knuffa, kärlek.

*The success of english pop music is sometimes attributed to british/american imperialism, but i find this reason just as contributing if not more. It's relatively easy to make a memorable rhyme or two within the constraints of a bar. Compare with the parallel genre schlager (meaning something that hits), which is mostly a non-english european affair; popular in languages which generally take a bit more time to express about the same thing. I often find that classical schlagers often take twice the score length to express a lyrical point.

Edit: Though of course, this particular use of "page" was likely defined by someone english speaking.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:51 am 
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FrankenGraphics wrote:
The words on a page experiment should be conducted in english, right? It might not work in other (european at least) languages since english has a very high number of one-syllable words; cleft, deft, pull, shove, love*. In swedish, that would be klyfta, skicklig, dra (or draga if you're reading a text from the 40s), knuffa, kärlek.

Yeah and it would probably wouldn't work in Chinese either, but for the opposite reason considering the compactness of written Chinese (and also Japanese to a lesser degree). Classic Chinese might be even worse with mostly only monosyllable words often written with one character per word. And wasn't it the Chinese that developed bamboo rolls, paper and some of the more sophisticated pens?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:12 am 
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Here's a few suggestions to powers greater than page, besides bank:
chapter, block, book. I think i prefer block.

$C03F = Ceeblock thirpar eff.
$8456 = Eightblock fourpage fifpar six

I don't think there's a need describing a number higher than $FFFF orally/cognitive. Hex colour codes are for example supossed to be read rr gg bb, not rrggbb.

You could also split addresses this way. Eightpar four, fifpar six.

Systems with an address range larger than $FFFFFF might be read similar to how you would use ten thousand.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:16 am 
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I like book and block, and they'd work well in Swedish too (bok and block). Par may not work so well because it sounds like the Swedish word for pair/couple, meaning 2. And page would be sida? Hmmm...

The only possible problem with block I see, is that block (of code) is a common term in programming it could conflict with.

Yeah more than four digits and the numbers are probably too large to talk about anyway so it would be easier to divide them in two or four digits in that case. Like $FFFFFF could be read as "effblockeffpageeffpareff and effpareff". And in for example SNES programming the term bank is already used naturally here.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:22 am 
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Re: swedish translation (quotation so others may skip):
Quote:
I thought par was easily discernable. Built from paragraf, pronunciation would be /par/. Par, as in pair, is /pɑːr/ (notice difference in both timbre and length: a vs ɑ, and a/ɑ vs a/ɑː). If that's not enough, para would work i suppose. But then we need to be sure to pronounce $xA as para-A with a punch to the a (/'ɑː/ rather than /ɑː/). Or how a teenager might explosively say "öh!" when they want to have something passed at dinner :wink:

Sida (page) might not be that much of a problem. Remember we have the prefix form sido- which would sound natural.

So:
$100 = (en) sida
$101 ... $1FF = sidoett ... sidoeffparaeff.
It becomes tricker when pages are more than one, though - should it be:
$2FF = tvåsido effparaeff
or
tvåsidor effparaeff?


I suspect that we won't be able to come up with a system that'll be universally suitable for all languages. There would need to be localizations. But if the process is relatively painless for some of the largest languages by number of native speakers, it's good. Just being able to think and clearly communicate hex numerals in english is pretty good, too.

If we *really* wanted to extend beyond $1000 using powers with dedicated names, we could extend the analogy of paragraphs, pages and blocks/books with suite, row, shelf, corridor, and floor :lol: Not that anyone would use it or find it practical.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:36 pm 
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Haha yeah I agree.

Swedish discussion:
Quote:
No matter the origin if I see par I would pronounce it with the long vowel. I didn't think -para A would be a problem. The two A-sounds could just meld and become a long A-sound. Or maybe that is a problem with Swedish vowel quantity rules (short vowel = long consonant, short consonant = long vowel).

OK sida is good.

Regarding $2FF, numerals are never divided in separate words in Swedish (both in written and spoken language), and there is no limit to the length of a word in Swedish either. It will have to be merged like this:
$2FF = tvåsidoeffparaeff

But what about plural form if it's just $200?
$200 = tvåsida, tvåsidor or even tvåsido?



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