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 Post subject: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:39 pm 
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So here's what I expect to happen - the system will be hacked in order to dump the Starfox 2 rom which will probably be the completely finished version Dylan Cuthbert referred to a couple years back. And if Nintendo can't (won't) make enough units to meet demand, it would serve them right.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/0 ... does_exist

Anyway, too bad Chrono Trigger isn't on there, but FFIII (really VI) is great; just wondering if it has the infamous evade bug patched. And it really should've been DKC2 instead of DKC. Otherwise there's nothing I'd change about the title selection.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:09 pm 
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I'd guess it would be the version with the Sketch bug fixed but the evade bug intact.

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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Oh yeah, that evade bug. I wondered why Terra and Celes were blocking everything those dinosaurs could throw their way while Sabin and Shadow kept getting pasted...

As for DKC2, it would be great to have it (plus four or nine more great games, maybe even including DKC3, to get back to a round number), but replacing DKC with it is dubious. You don't even play as Donkey Kong... it would be like having Yoshi's Island instead of Super Mario World.

I wonder if there will be a way to add new games to this one (probably not). Chrono Trigger is a pretty glaring omission; it's the first thing anyone says when they see that list...

...well, I guess I'm okay with these things not including every legendary game. Allows us original console owners to continue looking down our noses at the kiddies, y'know?

...

...just as soon as Star Fox 2 comes out on cartridge. If it's the fabled final version, that's big.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:37 pm 
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DKC2 is so polished and more elaborately designed as to make DKC look kinda bland (which doesn't mean DKC is a bad game so much as DKC2 was a great sequel). Just a few things it added:
-Team attacks
-Jumping out of water (this in particular makes DKC look more primitive)
-An actual objective for the bonus areas
-More varied backdrops and atmospherics
-Miscellaneous gameplay elements (big bouncy tires, hot-air balloons, wind)
-Upgraded Squawks

But yeah, it probably made more sense to keep DKC for name recognition. YI and SMW are too different to really say one is superior.

Oh, and I'm glad it has Megaman X instead of X2 or 3 because that game got it right the first time.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:14 pm 
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You're definitely right about DKC2 > DKC. Screw Donkey Kong, Diddy and Dixie is a far better duo. (Instead of using Diddy the whole game and switching for two seconds to take out a Krusha.) There's just so much more polish and creativity in the game; each level feels distinct and all the gimmicks work. (Well, maybe not Web Woods...) A harder comparison to me is DKC vs DKC3. DKC3 shares a lot of the great aspects of DKC2, but feels cheap in comparison to the first game, never mind the second.

Also, forget Chrono Trigger, where's R-Type III? :lol: (I re-looked at the games list, and wtf is Super Punchout doing on a list of only 21 games to represent the SNES?)

You know what, this is an obvious conclusion, but internally, it's probably identical to the NES Classic. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:46 pm 
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...say, that's a good point. There are exactly zero 2D shmups on that list. At least the NES Classic had Gradius, and Galaga if that counts...


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:58 pm 
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DKC3 is almost as good as 2 and it's interesting how it has a much lighter tone: There's nothing creepy or ethereal but if anything it does a better job of getting the adrenaline up like "Stampede Sprint" and "Kong-Fused Cliffs". Plus it breaks away almost completely from having blown-up regular bad guys as the bosses and even uses a mini-game mechanic for a boss fight. The trading system adds more variety than just getting another bonus coin from the bosses. But no, it's not a huge leap over the last game. They're more like peanut butter and jelly.

Oh, and it has the best partner system of the three games, for certain.

Starfox 1 and 2 don't really fill the shmup quotient, do they. Axelay or Space Megaforce would've been great. But if it had to be 20 games (plus Starfox 2) I'm not sure I'd cut any for a shmup because with the exception of maybe Super Punch-Out and Kirby's Dream Course they all represent the cream of the system's library. And Super Punch-Out was probably not going to be dropped for a third-party title.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:23 pm 
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I'm surprised OP doesn't link to it, but here's the official page with the game list:

http://www.nintendo.com/super-nes-classic


It's a fine collection, in my view. My two favourite games (ever) are on it. It's a nice box with nice controllers (why not detachable this time?*). Maybe a decent value if you don't have to pay scalper prices.

Like anybody else, there are some SNES games I have some extreme love for that aren't on here (Actraiser II) but I don't think the list itself is the problem-- it's just that they made yet another disposable console that can never get more games.

Yeah, I'm sure it'll be cracked, but I've already got plenty of nice ways to emulate games. I'd rather see some sort of permanent license arrangement like GoG / Steam instead of Nintendo's practice of dishonouring all your purchases with each new console. I've already bought several of those games on multiple platforms already, and I've kind of had enough of that. :P The Disney Afternoon Collection on Steam is a much better deal than this in my view... but maybe it's because I don't care at all about the box it comes in.


Nice that Starfox 2 will get a release, though. A "gift" (unwilling) from Nintendo to the emulation community. :beer: :D


* Edit: not sure if the controllers are detachable. I may have been misinformed.


Last edited by rainwarrior on Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:47 pm 
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rainwarrior wrote:
Nice that Starfox 2 will get a release, though. A "gift" (unwilling) from Nintendo to the emulation community. :beer: :D


Maybe a "gift" to whoever sharing the proto ROMs by sending them a giant letter with giant letters "C" and "D" written on it thereafter. But yeah, the supposedly completed game eventually getting an official release is nice, no matter what.

Edit:
rainwarrior wrote:
It's a nice box with nice controllers (why not detachable this time?).

Hmm? Is it mentioned anywhere they're not detachable?
From the official page:
Quote:
The Super NES Classic Edition is compatible with the Classic Controller™ and Classic Controller Pro™ accessories. Just plug it in and play!

From my understanding they're detachable, using the original connectors even (unless those "Classic" controllers are new products with "modern" connectors such as USB.)


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:01 am 
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Gilbert wrote:
From my understanding they're detachable, using the original connectors even (unless those "Classic" controllers are new products with "modern" connectors such as USB.)

I read something earlier where it was said they were not removable, but I don't remember who said it, and it's possible they were incorrectly interpreting it anyway, so maybe I should retract that statement.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:16 am 
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I've just checked. Even the NES Classic had detachable controller (note: no 's') but ONLY ONE controller was included, to rip you off in paying US$10 more for another controller. Seeing that the SNES Classic will give you two detachable controllers it seems to be a better deal.

It's unfortunate that though the Japanese Famicom Mini included both controllers, for authentic reasons, they're not detachable, and that PAD2 did not provide the Select and Start buttons. Seeing that it mentioned the MIC won't work anyway, how "authentic" the thing was is questionable. They should have identical detachable controllers on both ports like how they did in the later redesign of the Famicom. Seeing that the "expansion port" is probably just a decoration, it couldn't even use other controllers such as those, say, with autofire capability(without modding).


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:19 am 
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Never though SF2/SW2 would come out.

I think with DKC there might be 2 factors. Donkey Kong is Nintendo owned, while I think Diddy and Trixie and what ever the baby was called is Rare owned. So in the break-up Nintendo got DKC 100%(even though it does have Diddy) while Rare kept a solid piece of the pie for DKC2 and 3. So putting 1 might be easier for them than 2 or 3. Also when one speaks of a thing for collecting, people tend to go after the first one, as its the one that started it all, even when the first one is a mess and the 5th is the best.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:34 am 
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Licensing problems aside, for the DKC case I think it would be odd to not include the 1st game but only the 2nd, unless both (or three if the 3rd game is also included) games are included.

While many games on the list are sequels to earlier games, the 1st games in their series released for this system will always be included, except maybe FF3/6/whatever, but that doesn't matter much as the FF games weren't that related anyway (TBH FF2/4 looked like a Famicom game and it probably wouldn't be that appealing).


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:46 am 
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Gilbert wrote:
(TBH FF2/4 looked like a Famicom game and it probably wouldn't be that appealing).

I'm not sure which of these two games has more cultural cachet.

I've replayed FF4 many more times than FF6. I actually enjoy it more, even though FF6 does have much better art and sound, and a battle system that isn't quite as completely broken. A lot of things about it are just more "fun" to me.

FF4 even got a DS remake, and an official (bad) sequel.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:02 am 
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Actually since I never owned a SFC I've never really played either of these FF games (and I'm never a fan of the series anyway), but personally after "checking" with emulators I liked FF5 the most (which won't be included in the list for obvious reasons). FF4 looked terrible even for an early title(and the lack of Kanji in the text just made it unplayable to me), FF6 looked "drab" with its dark graphics and FF5 looked just right with bright, colourful and not overly detailed visuals, and its opening was AWESOME, which I would occasionally fired the game up just to watch it.

The only FF game that I've ever managed to finish was the GBA version of FF4, which at least had updated visual that wasn't as primitive as the original and Kanji support, but this was the version that was broken...

Too bad none of the DQ games for the system were released in the west, otherwise I'd like to see them more than any of the Square games.


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