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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:11 am 
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Yeah but that intro, and they march with mode 7 floor, while Terra's theme plays, and she is under mine control and it soo sad and its the flipping opening. The tune still haunts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGC_EzojK6E

Personally and I get that it has SDD-1 but I think adding Star Ocean would have been a really really nice option, I mean if we are going to SW2, why not? or even Tales...

Terranigma is my favourite SNES RPG, and I would prefer to see it over FF6 or CT. Given the USA never got it, it would be nice for them to finally get a "proper release" just as we are now getting a proper release of "SMRPG"


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:14 am 
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Japanese version. Interesting how some of the titles differ. It's a bit odd to not include a Dracula game though (whether it's good or not).

And from the photos we clearly see that the controllers are full sized, probably in every way identical to the original ones, which is a good thing.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:22 am 
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Gilbert wrote:
Japanese version. Interesting how some of the titles differ. It's a bit odd to not include a Dracula game though (whether it's good or not).

And from the photos we clearly see that the controllers are full sized, probably in every way identical to the original ones, which is a good thing.

Yes, the controllers for the NES classic were like that too.

Here's the game lists:

Both:
  • Contra 3: The Alien Wars
  • Donkey Kong Country
  • F-Zero
  • Final Fantasy 6
  • Kirby Super Star
  • Mega Man X
  • Secret of Mana
  • Star Fox
  • Star Fox 2
  • Super Ghouls n Ghosts
  • Super Mario Kart
  • Super Mario RPG
  • Super Mario World
  • Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
  • Super Metroid
  • Street Fighter 2 (SFC: Super SF2, SNES: SF2 Turbo)
  • The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

SFC:
  • Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem
  • Legend of the Mystical Ninja
  • Panel de Pon
  • Super Soccer

SNES:
  • EarthBound
  • Kirby’s Dream Course
  • Super Castlevania IV
  • Super Punch-Out!!


Last edited by rainwarrior on Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:25 am 
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rainwarrior wrote:
Yes, the controllers for the NES classic were like that too.

It was not for the Japanese version, for authentic reasons, again, otherwise the controllers could not rest on the sides of the console like the original. Coupling with the fact that you couldn't even swap the controllers in that version it's a real bummer.

Edit:
The list is actually different in *five* games. Note that the versions of Street Fighter II included in the two lists aren't even the same iteration.


Last edited by Gilbert on Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:28 am 
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Pretty good lineup, only lacking Harvest Moon, at least that I miss right now.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:34 am 
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PANEL DE PON - WHAT GIVE ME...... well Tetris Attack, but yeah okay tetris license and lawsuit etc so I will take the Panel de pon version....

Fire Emblem would also be nice, but I agree very niche on the SNES


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:15 am 
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Am I the only one to prefer DKC to DKC2 ? Sure I prefer the music of DKC2 because it's amazing, but the game as a whole I prefer the original, it's less insanely hard and sadistic.

Gilbert wrote:
Actually since I never owned a SFC I've never really played either of these FF games [...], but personally after "checking" with emulators I liked FF5 the most

FF5 is definitely the best of the SNES trilogy, even though the other 2 are awesome too.


[url]The only FF game that I've ever managed to finish was the GBA version of FF4, which at least had updated visual that wasn't as primitive as the original and Kanji support, but this was the version that was broken...
[/url]
So as a chinese native, you can understand japanese just by looking at the kanjis ? :shock:

Quote:
Terranigma is my favourite SNES RPG, and I would prefer to see it over FF6 or CT.

Terranigma is a great game, but is being a A-RPG makes it not quite comparable to regular J-RPGs like FF6 and CT...

Quote:
Personally [...] I think adding Star Ocean would have been a really really nice option, [...] why not? or even Tales...

To be honest Star ocean, although it has the best graphics of any SNES/SFC game, is rather average as a game. The battle system is totally broken and the story super-confusing. Each dungeon is basically a super-annoying labyrinth where you'll have a hard time if you're a completionist like me and WANT to get each treasure. Even if you don't care about treasures you'll still have no idea where to go and be lost among lot of reused screens.

Tales of Phansia, almost by the same team of people although they were in a different company, is way better; better battle system and better story. The dungeons are still labyrinthic, but it doesn't get as ridiculous as Star Ocean (either that or I lost my patience between the playthrough of both games...)

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Too bad none of the DQ games for the system were released in the west, otherwise I'd like to see them more than any of the Square games.

They were released on the Nintendo DS rather recently - and the remakes are likely to not be so much of a grindfest as their original counterparts.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:57 am 
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93143 wrote:
As for DKC2, it would be great to have it (plus four or nine more great games, maybe even including DKC3, to get back to a round number), but replacing DKC with it is dubious. You don't even play as Donkey Kong... it would be like having Yoshi's Island instead of Super Mario World.

....But DKC2 is the good one. DKC1 is, well, "overrated" at least. The improvements they made for the sequel is absolutely mindboggling and makes the original come across like an awkward prototype.

Gilbert wrote:
Licensing problems aside, for the DKC case I think it would be odd to not include the 1st game but only the 2nd, unless both (or three if the 3rd game is also included) games are included.

The NES Mini included Super Contra, but not Contra.

rainwarrior wrote:
I've replayed FF4 many more times than FF6. I actually enjoy it more, even though FF6 does have much better art and sound, and a battle system that isn't quite as completely broken. A lot of things about it are just more "fun" to me.

FF4 even got a DS remake, and an official (bad) sequel.

Funny. The battles is pretty much the one thing I like better in FF4 than FF6. They are generally a lot more tactical, where FF6 is more about building your characters as strong as possible. I love both games though. FF4 is maybe even a little underappreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:05 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
Am I the only one to prefer DKC to DKC2 ? Sure I prefer the music of DKC2 because it's amazing, but the game as a whole I prefer the original, it's less insanely hard and sadistic.

There's nothing insanely hard and sadistic about DKC2? It's a relatively easy (but challenging) game, and only the "Lost world" stages get really difficult - and even then, they do it extremely fairly and in a way that makes it fun to try again and again until you get it.

DKC1 on the other hand is extremely unfair in many places. It's not a hard game by any means, if anything it's probably a little too easy to really be entertaining, but you'll still die a lot due to unfair enemy placement and an unfair camera paired with absolutely huge sprites. Apart from generally just much better level design in the sequel, one of the most important improvements was actually simply controlling the camera much better. Especially the underwater stages in DKC1 were just happy to kill you by spawning an enemy into the screen so fast that you were unable to react to it with your limited swimming controls if you were in an unfortunate position. That's just plain bad design, no matter how you look at it. I even recorded a video demonstrating it: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/41702875
Fortunately Rare were obviously aware of these shortcomings and did a lot to fix it for the sequel.

DKC2 in general had a lot more meat to it. Much more fun secrets to go for, longer stages with a lot more variation and creative ideas all the way through. It's a big, solid game compared to DKC1's linear string of mostly forgettable stages.

I wont tell you that you are "wrong" for preferring DKC1, I guess it has things some people will prefer, but I'm unable to see it myself. The only change for the worse I can think of is that the Diddy/Donkey buddy duo actually made more sense, since in DKC2 Diddy has absolutely no advantages that would make you want to use him over Dixie's propeller-float. He's more of a back-up armor. That's one thing they fixed for DKC3, despite all the hate Kiddy Kong is usually getting (and to be fair, I don't see why they couldn't use Donkey/Dixie).


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:17 am 
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Quote:
There's nothing insanely hard and sadistic about DKC2?

Well there's lost of wasps everywhere, there was this mine level with wasps all over the place, one wrong move and you're either dead or you fall from 12 floors and have to redo everything again, I was frustrated here. The lava levels were insane too, you are supposed to pass over pits with an air balloon WHILE avoiding wasps.

DKC1 can also get frustrating but at least the first half of the game is beatable, it's only in the industrie era that I was unable to progress anymore and had to resort to save states. DKC2 it's already on the 2nd world where I can't progress anymore. The only major problem I can see in DKC1 is that the newer stages are basically harder versions of earlier stages, re-using graphics a lot.

Quote:
It's a relatively easy (but challenging) game

This is like, not a contradiction at all :roll:

Quote:
It's a big, solid game compared to DKC1's linear string of mostly forgettable stages.

Both games are just as linear - stages are revisitable but beating one stage just gives access to the next one; I don't think DKC2 had multiple paths or anything like that (if it had them it's only in later stages then).


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:34 am 
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Oh, DKC2 is linearly structured (not counting the Lost World, which is accessed through minor branching routes throughout), but where DKC1 has you just complete one stage at a time never looking back, DKC2 will have you go back and forth more, buying hints from Cranky and retrying stages to find more secrets. Not as a grind, but because it's fun, and because once you've beaten a stage, doing it again is almost always a breeze.

If you gave up on DKC2 after the second world, you're missing out on pretty much the entire game, and I think you're making invalid assumptions about it. When you called the game hard, I actually thought you were talking about stuff like everyone's favourite insta-kill stage, Screech's Sprint, or the devilish Animal Antics.
The fact that you are even considering resorting to savestates and using them to play through either game will easily give you the wrong experience about the game's design. Especially minor unfair design elements such as the ones I talked about in my previous post will be a non-issue, but at the same time the stages that are actually challenging in a fair and fun way, will also be lost to someone relying on savestates.

DKC2 is, as I said, challenging, but it's NOT a hard game, and no, that's not a contradiction. I don't think you're this bad at video games, that's definitely not the impression I've been getting from you (even though we also disagreed on Castlevania) ;) I think you may just have been a bit too quick to give up on this game, maybe due to a more "casual" approach than the game really deserves?
Sit down, make sure you have the time to really get into it, and delve into DKC2 over a couple of sessions to play through all of it. Preferably on a real SNES, so savestates aren't even an option. It's a great game, I promise. And much easier than Castlevania.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:22 am 
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As for what games should have been included, I'd say Chrono Trigger, Illusion of Gaia, and Turtles in Time.

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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:33 am 
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Chrono Trigger is a huge omission, but it has FF6, so who can really complain. One out of two of Square's biggest classic titles of all time is pretty big.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:49 am 
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strat wrote:
So here's what I expect to happen - the system will be hacked in order to dump the Starfox 2 rom which will probably be the completely finished version Dylan Cuthbert referred to a couple years back. And if Nintendo can't (won't) make enough units to meet demand, it would serve them right.


I hope they do release the ROM Cuthbert identified in his Nintendo Life 2015 interview. Then I hope someone would hack the SNES mini and dump it so it can be played on original hardware. But, before anyone pats themselves on the back for having the final release at last, they would have to pour through the game and restore any flashing effects Nintendo likes to remove from their re-releases to lessen the likelihood of triggering epileptic seizures.

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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:45 am 
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Yeah, DKC2 isn't that hard and is far from "sadistic". Sadistic is F-Zero GX's story mode on very hard.

The Squaks section of Animal Antics made me want to snap my controller in half though...

When Sumez said DKC2 was less linear, I think he meant the stage design? The only non-linear stages in the original DKC are the water levels and Slip Slide Ride, whereas DKC2 has horizontal, vertical, and square shaped levels.


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