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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Erockbrox wrote:
Does anyone know if there was an adapter made to play the NES mini controllers on the original NES console?

Google shows a bunch of the adapters the other way around.

Erockbrox wrote:
- The hacked console. I really enjoy playing games on my TV rather than on an emulator on my computer.

Then buy a second computer and plug that into your TV. If a full-size PC is too big, ugly, or noisy, try a Raspberry Pi computer.

Erockbrox wrote:
Also what emulator are they using for these NES classic and SNES classic consoles? It is their own personal in house emulator?

As far as anyone's aware, the emulators used in Animal Crossing, Virtual Console, and the NES Classic aren't one of the major fan-made emulators. They're either internal or developed under contract. (Which of these doesn't especially matter, as Nintendo is known for outsourcing some of its game programming to studios under "white label" terms where the studio isn't credited visibly, such as Ikegami and Tose.)

Erockbrox wrote:
Has anyone reversed engineered the emulator so that you can use it on your computer just like the other NES and SNES emulators that we already have?

The NES Classic uses an ARM processor. Your home PC probably uses an x86-64 processor. And the accuracy of the official stuff is probably bs compared to bsnes, as it only has to be good enough to run a couple dozen games.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:16 pm 
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"Official" emulators tend to be much more like Nesticle or ZSNES (or early emulators in general) in the sense that their main goal is to get games running correctly, rather than precisely replicate the workings of the original hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:04 pm 
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The PC Engine game is majorly overrated because it wasn't available outside of Japan, so it was perceived as a "must have gem" for this reason.

I feel the same way about Seiken Densetsu 3 ~ when I first discovered emulation (well, got a PC that could run it) that game was the first one I played. After playing through it six times, I started to realize it's not as much fun as Secret of Mana (Seiken Densetsu 2). Yeah, it's more polished and whatnot, but it just added more complication to an already elegant design that didn't need more features. Make no mistake, it still deserves an international release. And it doesn't make sense for Square-Enix to keep the Mana Collection Japanese-only.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:54 pm 
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Seiken Densetsu 3 is great. I don't know if it's better than 2, but it's a lot better than anything else made in the series since. I think it's a very memorable game, and a great example of the lengths developers would go to put together a solid JRPG in the 16 bit generation.

And Dracula X on PC Engine? It's downright one of my favourite games of all time. People are entitled to their opinions, but calling it overrated is crazy. While I do think it did receive extra hype for being less easily available for a long time, is IS an exceptionally good game.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:09 am 
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And Dracula X on PC Engine? It's downright one of my favourite games of all time. People are entitled to their opinions, but calling it overrated is crazy. While I do think it did receive extra hype for being less easily available for a long time, is IS an exceptionally good game.


This.

The boss fights are sometimes very tough, but i also feel it's because of me when i lose. I'd say the same about beating death in CV3. You need to compromise between taking it cool and predict incoming projectiles and landing enough hits before time runs out. Mashing attacks will lead to defeat (unless you exploit an unfortunate mechanism).

The artistic style of PCE Dracula X is immaculate and the balance between player abilities vs environment and enemies feels just and sharp.

Hit boxes and platform placements are always done right. That's something you can't say about CV4 (which still is good in its own right).

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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:34 am 
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To me Dracula X is probably the best of the series(haven't played most of the later games I couldn't say much). It is very polished with excellent presentation, and contains lots of fun references to the other games of the series to satisfy the fans, while not lacking in gameplay and real contents. It also, as mentioned, poses a reasonable challenge, but for those who find it too hard, just use Maria(especially for those who prefer more free control of the player like Super Akumajo Dracula). It greatly reduces the difficulty, while still keeping the game fun. Plus, Maria's animal companions are cute and for someone, could consider being mocked for playing with the easy difficulty (those cutscenes, and special mention to the hilarious ending, too). It's indeed quite well thought out, to suit the need of a wider range of audience.

I'd say its direct sequel, Symphony of the Night, is probably a bit overrated though. It is still a very fun game but is also a *very easy* grindfest, falling into the trap of being a "collection" game, in which you just repeatedly do the same stuff over and over, trying to get 200+% completion, getting all the items, or finding rare enemies, etc. After you complete (or nearly complete) the collection you may just ask yourself, "What was I really doing here?" It also reuses A LOT of stuff (specifically the enemy sprites and animations) from its predecessor, but yeah, I agree with many, that Alucard's walk cycle animation is VERY AWESOME, probably the best 2D walk cycle EVER.

Some time before the turn of the century, a university classmate of mine went to Japan and I asked him to grab a bunch of PCE CD games for me (I'm more or less a collector of PCE CD games, with 200+ titles on hand and during this trip of his he bought me around 80 titles), mostly heavily marked down in price. One day he phoned back and asked me whether I wanted to grab a mint copy of Dracula X, but at the original retail price. As all the other titles were at much lower prices I eventually declined the offer. I didn't know the game was really that good at the time. I still regret that decision to this day.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:34 am 
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Ouch that was really too bad! While I don't think it's overrated it is probably overpriced, simply because the hype has led people to believe that it's more rare than it probably is.
I agree about Maria Renard, she really lifts the game and one of the most disappointing facts about XX is that she is not playable in that version. And for people that thinks it's too easy with her or wants a challenge you can play the whole game as Belmond.

Seiken Densetsu 1, 2 and 3 are all great games on their own with 3 being the most polished IMHO. They all have their own style though so they are not directly comparable. For example 3 doesn't use weapons as tools to progress and 1 have more switch puzzles and the like. 2 has the weapons and magic leveling thing going on (and annoying ring menus) etc.

I don't think Symphony is overrated either. I love how much it refers to the prequel and even some of the secrets are in the same place. It's maybe a grindfest but it's more of an RPG than any earlier Castlevania except Dracula II so those things are expected.

Also I really agree with Bergalad about having a separate button for sub-weapons are the way to go if possible. In the NES and PC Engine (and possibly GBA) games it really can't be helped due to the lack of buttons, but any console with more than two face buttons should use a separate button. Pressing up not only is in the way when climbing stairs but also makes it harder to move and use sub-weapons at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:37 am 
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Give up jumping at the foot of stairs, and you free up A and B for two weapons.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:23 am 
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Hit boxes and platform placements are always done right. That's something you can't say about CV4 (which still is good in its own right).

Sorry but I'll say it. In SCV4, hit boxes and platform placements are always done right.

To me, Dracula X is basically feels like huge return to CV1, ignoring all the improvement that CV2, CV3 and SCV4 did inbetween. The only reason I can see why people are so fond of it is because they were (rightfully) frustrated not being able to play it for years.

Quote:
I feel the same way about Seiken Densetsu 3 ~ when I first discovered emulation (well, got a PC that could run it) that game was the first one I played. After playing through it six times, I started to realize it's not as much fun as Secret of Mana (Seiken Densetsu 2). Yeah, it's more polished and whatnot, but it just added more complication to an already elegant design that didn't need more features.

Well I guess you're right... I still like SD3 but it's not objectively "better" than SD2/SOM, both are great in their own way. The fact it was less accessible gives us the "feel" that SD3 is better. It still have less glitches, better graphics and twice as much playable characters (although you're still limited to 3 per playthrough), and they added day/night cycles which is nice. So I guess it's still a bit better, but not all that much.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:39 am 
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Quote:
hit boxes and platform placements are always done right.

Case: In some frames, Slogra's damaging hit box is litteraly a fingerwidth outside its artwork measured on screen.. I believe that's one of the worst possible ways you could make a boss tough.
There's also a bunch of platforms placed so that you'll bump your head into them in a rather furiating fashion. That's not really a test of skill because there's no element of timing or tactics, it's just a slowdown to pass safely.

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To me, Dracula X is basically feels like huge return to CV1, ignoring all the improvement that CV2, CV3 and SCV4 did inbetween.


A huge return doesn't equal bad. There were improvements in some fields, and there were sacrifices/deteriorations in order to make those improvements.

For me, konami struck gold with cv 1 (as opposed to vampire hunter for msx, etc where they hadn't quite mastered how to make tight controls). Cv1 on the other hand, is a beautiful mix of capabilities and restrictions. They're iconic and present a unique platforming challenge. Cv 2 had its merits but dropped the action theme alltogether (+ the challenge) and most time is spent just walking around collecting stuff in an atmospheric setting. CV 3 came up with some features that did improve on CV 1 but still respects the core design ideas very minutely. Very few sacrifices were made.

With cv4 (again, for me), they plastered a lot of cool stuff on to show what the snes could do, and while it is a good game on its own, it's just not what i like about the "original" series. The subweapons have been demoted to a mostly cosmetic option; 99% percent of the time you never really need them and you end up with an overabundance of hearts if you're not using them just because it's fun to throw some weapons about. Most enemies don't stand a chance against the multidirectional whip, you can cheese out all you want which also lessens the need for learning tactical placement and rythm, to great things with cv1 and 3. You can move while jumping. It may seem like a no-nonsense upgrade, but... while convenient, it does at the same time take away some core experiences from CV 1, where the name of the game is timing jumps and being precise and measure with your eyes a split second before committing. In that game, it's even common to intentionally jump into an enemy, take dame, and be shoved in a direction to make a longer jump or skip a long part of a room altogether. That sort of combos feel awesome. SCV4, then, lacks that call for preciseness present in cv1, 3, X and XX, for the sake of convenient control. It's a compromise; making an improvement (fluid, easy control), and at the same time a sacrifice (preciseness, rythm and tactical decisionmaking).

Rondo of Blood is a return to the tested and true core concept, but with sharpened stylism, and should be cherished by virtue of those merits.
Super Castlevania IV dares to do something different while staying thematically consistent, all while succeeding at deliviring a good game experience, and should be cherished for that.

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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:36 am 
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Levels 4 and 6 are the only good levels in the game. Everything else is just one boring long hallway.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Bregalad wrote:
Well I guess you're right... I still like SD3 but it's not objectively "better" than SD2/SOM, both are great in their own way. The fact it was less accessible gives us the "feel" that SD3 is better. It still have less glitches, better graphics and twice as much playable characters (although you're still limited to 3 per playthrough), and they added day/night cycles which is nice. So I guess it's still a bit better, but not all that much.

These are my major problems with SD3:
-Class change system pads out what's basically a short game with grinding and farming (for the "???" seeds required for second class-change), though that said it's not absolutely required to class change and the game's probably winnable without the second one.

-A common complaint I've seen over the years, the basic combat system is reduced to jab x 4-supermove-repeat while in SD2/SoM there was some strategy involved in charging your melee attacks. Also, it was tolerable in SoM to have the spells interrupt the action but it's really kind of annoying here because they have more fancy graphics/animations.

-Unbalanced difficulty - You're pretty much screwed in a party without stat-ups/stat-downs (iirc Lise is the only one with stat-ups) because melee attacks do little damage on bosses. And of course I relied almost exclusively on melee attacks only casting support magic.

Now SoM could be accused of being a grindfest as well but if you know which elementals are most useful it's not that time-consuming to become sufficiently powerful. If you level everyone's weapon skill and elemental to the max out of OCD then yeah, it sucks. I do wish they found a way to refine the combat system instead of junking it for SD3.

SD3 is still a fun game but the style beats out the substance by quite a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:55 am 
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FrankenGraphics wrote:
CV 3 came up with some features that did improve on CV 1 but still respects the core design ideas very minutely. Very few sacrifices were made.

I do not think any sacrifice was made. CV3 is basically CV1 with better gameplay, more enemies, more levels, multiple paths and multiple playable characters. I do not think anything from CV1 was removed in CV3.
Stuff from CV3 was removed into SCV4 (which is also a return back to CV1 in those aspects) but it's compensated with better gameplay, better controls, longer game, better music.
Rondo of Blood is basically a return to between CV1 and CV3, there is multiple paths, but not multiple characters (simultaenously), and none of the major improvements of SCV4 are here, except the graphics.

Quote:
You can move while jumping. It may seem like a no-nonsense upgrade, but... while convenient, it does at the same time take away some core experiences from CV 1 [...] It's a compromise; making an improvement (fluid, easy control), and at the same time a sacrifice (preciseness, rythm and tactical decisionmaking).

It seems more like you're masochistic and hate games with good, fluid control. I do not see how not being able to move while jumping makes any advantages. The only "advantage" is that it makes the game much harder. Your claim it improves rythm or preciseness is complete bullshit. If you really hate to move while jumping you don't have to in SCV4. But the ability to do so will save your life countless time.

Quote:
The subweapons [in SCV4] have been demoted to a mostly cosmetic option;

Wrong, I use subweapons in SCV4 regularly, even more than in earlier CV games because you can use them while moving thanks to the fact there is enough butons on the SNES controller so that they didn't have to use this extremely awkard UP+B combination to use them, making them usable during action.

Quote:
99% percent of the time you never really need them and you end up with an overabundance of hearts

In my experience, this is the case in any Castlevania game, not just SCV4. CV2 being the only exeption as hearths are used as currency.

Quote:
-A common complaint I've seen over the years, the basic combat system is reduced to jab x 4-supermove-repeat while in SD2/SoM there was some strategy involved in charging your melee attacks. Also, it was tolerable in SoM to have the spells interrupt the action but it's really kind of annoying here because they have more fancy graphics/animations.

Personally I never cared about charged attacks in SOM, the time it takes to load them is way to long compared to their extra strength. The spells not interupting action was great but source of many bugs, for example if you do a weak attack and a strong spell simultaneously the spell can effctively go wasted as the game only accounts for the weak attack.

I liked how SD3 plays more like a beat'em up, it really changes the rythm of the game (but don't get me wrong I still like how SOM does it with the % of loaded attack).


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:45 am 
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I'm not a fan of the way SD2 prevents button mashing and I think SD3 have more entertaining battles in general. They work as a better bridge between action- and turn-based RPGs. You can even hold the attack button in SD3 and it will auto-battle. The collision detection is also worse in SD2, and the damage feedback is often delayed long after you made an attack.

Regarding grinding I think both games are typical for RPGs, it will become a grindfest if you want every weapon orb and power but it's also possible to rush through the game. The SD3 ???-seeds are much faster to grind for and more useful than the SD2 weapon orbs are. The later are more of a perfectionist thing.

The worst thing about SD3 IMHO is the large amounts of choices in characters and classes for each playthrough. Lots of different classes and strategies is one thing that makes RPGs fun, but this can also really screw a newbie over as he is most likely to have no idea what characters and classes he picks on his first playthrough, and just grabs the ones he finds to be cool or cute. Also you have to complete the game at least three times to see all story scenarios, with most of the main story being the same all three times. This of course is great for replayability though.

I don't agree about buffs and debuffs to be necessary though. I play mainly melee and usually have a mage and/or priest/healer as support, and I never had problems whacking bosses without Lise. Maybe a bad combination of characters and classes will result in hard bosses however, which comes back to the above mentioned problem.

tepples wrote:
Give up jumping at the foot of stairs, and you free up A and B for two weapons.

That is certainly an option, but I think limiting the player's ability to jump is even worse than limiting sub-weapon use. Also I'm not sure how this would work with jumping off stairs.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES Classic Edition
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:07 am 
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FrankenGraphics is on point on Dracula X :)

I don't see how it "ignores" improvements made in the sequels to CV1. On the other hand it takes elements from both CV2 and 3 (the exploration, branching paths, multiple characters, etc.) and uses it in its own way, while retaining what made the first Castlevania game such a masterpiece. It feels like a true sequel to CV3, and while it definitely ignores every change made in CV4 I think I already explained why I think that is for the better.
While I absolutely love SotN, it's true that it completely lacks challenge and sort of ended the classic straight forward CV action game. Dracula X manages to NAIL that formula, while still pulling off a lot of the world building, exploration and absurdly detailed presentation that SotN would build on.

I would have like to see a true sequel to CV4 though, moving further in the direction it was trying to go.

It's not even overpriced either. When I first bought it, it was the first time I would ever buy an "expensive" game, and it would remain the most expensive game I'd bought for years. But nowadays, with the recent inflations in the retro game market, it hasn't really gone much up in price since I bought it, and would almost be considered cheap cmopared to most CIB SNES prices, or other PC Engine games.


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